Items needed to ROM Tune - Nissan 240SX Forums
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post #1 of 66 Old 05-19-2008, 01:31 AM Thread Starter
 
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Items needed to ROM Tune

OK, there are a few things needed to start tuning your KA24DE/SR20DE(T)/etc.

1. Consult Cable and Datalogging

The consult cable will allow you to data log and monitor every sensor in your car. You can DIY for cheap, or order a premade one from:
www.blazt.biz
http://www.plmsdevelopments.com/

There are a few software programs out there. Here are the best:

Nissan DataScan http://202.43.230.118/
This is what I usually use. Supports all of the advanced Consult features, mapping tracing, wideband 02, etc. Great software, and pretty cheap at ~30 bucks for a license.

OBD Scan Tech http://www.geocities.com/obdscantech2000/
Similiar to NDS, but free, and accepts donation. Also looks like it has some advanced OBDII functions.

Calum's Consult
Not a bad little free program, doesn't seem to be update anymore though. If anyone wants it, I will post it.

*** Please note: The KA24E ECU does NOT have consult support, and, if you wish to tune it, please convert to a U12 Stanza KA24E Ecu. It is the same thing, but has consult ****

2. Daughter Boards

Again, you can make your own for cheap, or buy a prebuilt one. I prefer PLMS's
http://www.plmsdevelopments.com/
It is high quality, and Pete is the man over there. Add 2 chips to it, and you are almost all set!

*** Note, the CA/KA24E/RB do not need a daughterboard, they are 8Bit ecu, and just require the old chip to be removed and a socket installed ***

3. Chip Burner

I use a Willems Enhanced burner. Very cheap and works! I bought mine from here:

http://www.sivava.com/buynow.php?pd=A041

For 45 bucks, its not too bad. You can most likely find one/a knock off for cheaper on Ebay

4. Wideband O2

Just about any wideband O2 will work, just make sure it supports data logging. You can NOT tune off of a narrow band. Put the disco lights away please

5. Tuning Software

Luckily, almost all the tuning software out there is FREE. First, get a HEX editor (WinHex is good). Next, you will need some basic tunning program like:

TunerPro http://www.tunerpro.net/
I love this program. It is very advanced and intimidating at first though. The standard, no real time version is free. I will upload some Address files for it later.

RomEdit
This is a cool, poorly translated Japanese program. It rather simple and stream lined, but it goes do its job. If there is interest, I will attach it as it is no longer available.

LiveEdit
Another very basic and streamlined program, it is kind of cool as it has a built in Fuel Injector changer (ie from 270s -> 550s), and it has a built in MAF/VQ scale changer. It is discontinued by Lawrence Maroney, and, again, if there is interested I will post it up here as an attachment.



And, after you accumulated all of this, you should be good to go and get started! More posts to come!
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post #2 of 66 Old 05-19-2008, 04:39 AM
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I love this section already, good post


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post #3 of 66 Old 05-19-2008, 08:00 AM
 
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^^ same here... stuff ive been going to ka-t for. Im glad we finally have some of it here now.
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post #4 of 66 Old 05-27-2008, 07:10 PM
 
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This is for the 8bit style ecu where no daugther board is needed

desolder stock eprom chip off ecu pcb
solder a zif socket or 28pin socket where eprom chip goes

ecu is now prepped for new rom

buy a cheap eprom burner on ebay. i have a willem dual powered eprom burner, purchased off ebay for like 30 bucks shipped

buy some erasable chips. i buy my chips from this person
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQ...ELQ3aUSQ3a1124

download free rom editing software so you can edit the rom image. you will also need an address file for the chassis and engine your working on

now you have the ability to read and write ecu rom files

i'll pictures and more details when i have more time. if anybody has questions regarding ka24e tuning, please go ahead and post.

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post #5 of 66 Old 05-27-2008, 09:54 PM Thread Starter
 
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+1, nice post! sorry, only 8bit ecu knowledge I have is a tiny bit from the rb20 ecu. I also like the chips that Moats sells + there socket is pretty high quality (although prices at 10 bucks a pop).

Also remember that all you lucky 8biter's can use emulators, so real time for cheap.

My wideband should be in this weekend, and I will post a write up on modifying the stock KA24DE ecu to accept and data log it via consult.
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post #6 of 66 Old 05-28-2008, 12:22 AM
 
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thanks, once i get my camera back i'll post pictures and documentation regarding ka24e and ecu tuning. it'll be great.

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post #7 of 66 Old 06-08-2008, 04:11 PM
 
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-ECU
-Nistune board/software
-Consult Cable*
-Wideband

Done, done, and done. No need to constantly be burning chips.

*Consult cable is only needed for Nistune on the "newer" generation of engines like SR's and KADE. Engines like the CA18's and KAE's just use a regular USB cable.
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post #8 of 66 Old 06-09-2008, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
 
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except that that setup costs a hell of a lot more money than a traditional ROM tune. Besides, on a CA18 and KAE why not just emulate ? Not to mention that on a KAE, there is no consult, which is a no no for tuning, so you need to switch to a U12 anyways to get it. CA also does not have consult... not sure on a good swap for it.
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post #9 of 66 Old 06-09-2008, 03:01 PM
 
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I'd like to see this one if you can attach it here thanks.

LiveEdit
Another very basic and streamlined program, it is kind of cool as it has a built in Fuel Injector changer (ie from 270s -> 550s), and it has a built in MAF/VQ scale changer. It is discontinued by Lawrence Maroney, and, again, if there is interested I will post it up here as an attachment.
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post #10 of 66 Old 06-09-2008, 04:23 PM Thread Starter
 
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please do... i only have up to the third beta or something, I can't find a final version of it. My impression is that it is good for basic stuff, but tunerpro is still my favorite
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post #11 of 66 Old 06-09-2008, 10:48 PM
 
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i have live edit but for some cot damn reason it will only work once! does anyone have a final version?

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post #12 of 66 Old 06-14-2008, 03:23 PM
 
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Hey what would you suggest for someone new to tuning?


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post #13 of 66 Old 06-14-2008, 09:29 PM Thread Starter
 
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it really depends on your engine. The minimum is :

consult cable
wideband
then either a socket/chip/emulator or a daughter board and burner
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post #14 of 66 Old 06-15-2008, 12:04 PM
 
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well im running the ka24de which i plan to tubo in the near future.


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post #15 of 66 Old 06-16-2008, 02:20 AM Thread Starter
 
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well, you basically need everything i outline in the post then, a consult cable, daughter board, some chips, a burner, a wideband, and maybe a spare ecu or 2 (just in case ).

if you want a real time setup on the DE you can hack it together will all that stuff plus two emulators, but it would really cost less and be more reliable to just get Calum's board or a Nistune setup.
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post #16 of 66 Old 06-16-2008, 05:27 PM
 
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Okay thanks. I have a little time till Ill have to worry about this at least.


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post #17 of 66 Old 06-16-2008, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
 
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To be honest, you this should probably be one of the first upgrades you do

First, its much easier/more forgiving/safer to learn the basics on an NA
You will get speed limit/rev limit adjustment
Tons of diagnostic tools for when things go wrong
More NA power
Much better gas milleage if you tune it right
Ign. cuts instead of fuel cuts
2 Step rev limiter
Electric fan controller
and so much more.... for as much as one bolt on would cost
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post #18 of 66 Old 06-16-2008, 09:55 PM
 
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okay thanks will do just have to get the stuff


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post #19 of 66 Old 07-02-2008, 02:30 AM
 
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dang it. nice thread. the 240 is alot harder to tune than my evo 9.
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post #20 of 66 Old 07-02-2008, 08:45 PM
 
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Great post guys! I have my U12 ECU coming as well as a Consult cable from e-mance (paid for it right before I read jmhalder's issues on hybridka...).

Stinky- You have an e-mance consult cable right? Are you able to use Calumsult? I'm really liking that interface so far

PFC#255
1996 Maxima SE 5MT -- 14.6 @ 94 (I/Y/E/suspension) (blown trans)
1990 White 240sx Fastback -- SOHC KA-T project
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Last edited by BigLou240sx; 07-02-2008 at 09:33 PM.
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post #21 of 66 Old 07-03-2008, 02:14 AM
 
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I keep hearing people throwing out there that they are doing 2 step rev limiters. What the heck are you guys doing in order to have this? Are you taking the 4th or 5th gear rev limiters and setting them low and having a switch to make it think its in that gear when its not or something? Im lost on this one.


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post #22 of 66 Old 07-03-2008, 03:00 AM Thread Starter
 
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go check my stage 1 na tune... its in there....

right now slowly working on wideband o2 support... in the end it should replace the regular o2 input on the sensor. thinking about trying to keep the closed loop operation, too, but instead of hunting for 14.7, it would hunt for a programmable AFR, like 16.5 or something for better MPG.

basically, it involves knowledge of ASM (mitsubishi v770 to be exact for the DE ecus), and a lot of f'n time. using say calum's disassembly of the KA24DE ROM code, you can search for the the parts you want to modify, write new assembly, hand compile it, and then insert it back into the rom.

lmk if you want to know more, am more than happy sharring my (still) limited knowledge on it... i have a bunch of stuff like the v770'd reference manual etc.
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post #23 of 66 Old 07-03-2008, 03:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakgwailo View Post
go check my stage 1 na tune... its in there....

right now slowly working on wideband o2 support... in the end it should replace the regular o2 input on the sensor. thinking about trying to keep the closed loop operation, too, but instead of hunting for 14.7, it would hunt for a programmable AFR, like 16.5 or something for better MPG.

basically, it involves knowledge of ASM (mitsubishi v770 to be exact for the DE ecus), and a lot of f'n time. using say calum's disassembly of the KA24DE ROM code, you can search for the the parts you want to modify, write new assembly, hand compile it, and then insert it back into the rom.

lmk if you want to know more, am more than happy sharring my (still) limited knowledge on it... i have a bunch of stuff like the v770'd reference manual etc.

I have been looking at it and cant figure out what you actually changed. Maybe it would be easier if I had a stock kade bin to compair with but when I was downloading my buddies off his car my girlfirend called and needed me to come to town do I never got his off his ecu cuz they download kinda slow.

I have been looking at yours in nistune however and maybe there just isnt the capability to tune those paramiters in that software.

Maybe hit me up on yim or aim and we can discuss that further.

And as for the wideband causing the idle to be leaner, um ive been toying with a similar idea but Im not going to try it on the jim wolf tune on my ecu right now. My nistune ecu should be here the 7th and Ive already made my fuel basemap that will need fine tuned and my timing is retarded right now but I think I took allot of the work out of tuning from a stock sr tune.
Oh yea, that idea I was talking about was with a innovate lc1. Im using mine to mimic the narrow band signal and send a wideband signal to my db gauge. Anyways the analog outputs are programmable so it would be possible to make the switch point voltages that it sends to the ecu to make it think its 14.7 at a leaner afr. Like I said, im going to do this, just not on the jim wolf ecu because, well, its gahy.


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post #24 of 66 Old 07-03-2008, 03:40 AM Thread Starter
 
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well you can straight up do it, at 0x0038 is a switch to turn on/off o2 input, i am currently riding with it turned OFF, and using closed loop to go leaner than 14.7 (not possible in open loop unless you do it hackish with the K value). i just figure it would be cleaner with the o2 enables and the target AFR is changed. However, the real point in it is getting the wideband output into the consult log, along with fuel/ign TPs.

currently i have a JAW wideband, which has a direct output for the analog connection, ie 1.47v = 14.7:1, 1.25v= 12.5:1, etc. The LM1 uses a differen approach, which would require a look up table being inserted into the ROM itself to get the actual value.

i know that nistune has added the 2 step to the KA code if you request it, but you really wouldn't be able to see it in Nistune at the moment.

The main modification for the SR is:

Code:
Code block address: A2F5   M:1 X:0  (x = 16 bit, a = 8 bit)
   
ADD441         lda     al, 0x41d4     ;Read from RAM: Vehicle Speed
CD49A3         cmp     al, 0xA349     ;Launch Speed threshold (byte)                 
B002          bcs     case1          ;Branch Case 1
8007          bra     case2          ;Else always branch case 2         

;Case 1
AE4AA3        ldx     #0xA34A        ;Normal rev limit
8E9D43        stx     0x439d
60            rts
       
;Case 2
AE4CA3        ldx     #0xA34C        ;Launch rev limit
8E9D43        stx     0x439d
60            rts
wrote by deviousKA, check out hybridKA for more info, more people interested in this stuff the better, there are unfourtunately not that mainy developers apparently in the 240/Nissan community (unlike the Honda world)
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post #25 of 66 Old 07-03-2008, 03:53 AM
 
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Thanks for that info, Im going to have to see if they can get me the new address file for the ka just in case anyone wants I know wants a launch control.

I did however want to let you know that the analog outputs are actually programmable. I can program my outputs to be just like what you said your outputs work like. Innovate says that the main reason for it is so you can use a volt meter as a wideband gauge if you wanted to. I guess that adding the signal into the ecu and many other things you can think of are the reasons they allow you to change the outputs.


edit: Take directly from the lm1 manual and it applies to the lc1 as well.
Quote:
The
second output is programmed to output between 1.0 V for an AFR of 10 (gasoline) and 2.0V for
an AFR of 20. This allows to connect it to a digital voltmeter or panel meter (0.2V input) to show
directly AFR. Other curves of course are easily programmable


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