KA24DE Intake Manifold Guide - Nissan 240SX Forums
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#1 Old 01-07-2008, 05:37 PM
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KA24DE Intake Manifold Guide

I just recently(last night), became interested in the designing of intake manifolds. In the process I did a search on here and have noticed that there are quite a number of threads asking about aftermarket manifolds made for the KA24DE. So I figured I'd put them all in one thread to reduce the amount of, "KA24DE Aftermarket Intake Manifold," Threads.

First Up -

Omega Motive:
Price: $489
Designed with Mid-High Power In-Mind
Velocity Stacks


JGY Customs:
Price: $550
Designed with the KA-T In-Mind


Xcessive:
Price: $465
Designed with the KA-T In-Mind
Also Good for Mid-High N/A Power


O and J Performance:
Price: $950
Sheet Metal
T6061 Aluminum



Now in when I was looking around from stuff on how to determine Intake Manifold sizing and what not. I came across some very interesting information that I thought I'd share.
IM = Intake Manifold

Determining IM Runner Length:
The general rule is that you should begin with a runner length of 178mm for a 10,000 rpm peak torque location, from the intake opening to the plenum chamber. You add 43mm to the runner length for every 1000 rpm that you want the peak torque to occur before the 10,000 rpm.

So, for instance, if peak torque should occur at 4,500 rpm the total runner length should be 178mm + (5.5 x 43mm) = 415mm.


Our Intake Runners are aprrox. ~430mm

Determining IM Runner Diameter:
You can calculate the ideal runner diameter by the equation:

SQRT [ (target rpm for peak torque x Displacement x VE) / (V x 18.5) ]

SQRT = square root

VE = Volumetric Efficiency in %

V is the velocity of the air flow in the IM plenum for resonance (usually estimated at 180 ft/sec max.)
Displacement in Liters (2.4)

ex.

So if we want peak torque at 4500 rpm at 65% VE for an KA, VE = 0.65

SQRT [(4500x 2.4L x 0.65 )/ (180 x 18.5)] = [(4500 x 2.4 x 0.65)/(3330)]

= 1.45 in. or 36.9 mm is the ideal runner diameter.
(1 in = 25.4 mm)


Stock Intake Runner Dia. = 44.4 mm or 1.74 in (Ideal for 6500rpm)

Determining IM Plenum Size:
The plenum volume is critical on N/A engines, and a basic rule of thumb is: The smaller the plenum, the lower the rpm range, and bigger means higher rpm.

Determining TB Size
:
The best way to find out if your TB is too small for your IM plenum is to determine what the intake manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor is reading (in the plenum) when you are at full throttle ( or wide open throttle (WOT) ) while the car is accelerating using a datalogger. The MAP should be equal to, or close to, atmospheric pressure. If it isn't or there is a MAP drop at WOT, then your TB is still too small.

Determining Intake Diameter Size:
The ideal diameter for an intake is when the intake has 25% more cross-sectional area than the TB's bore cross-sectional area . Your TB diameter (overbored or not) dictates your intake diameter.

ex. 60/25.4 = 2.4/100 = 0.024 x 25 = 0.6
add the 25% (0.6) to the original diameter(2.4)
2.4 + 0.6 = 3" or 76mm

This is what I came up with:
60mm Bore TB
76mm Ideal Intake Diameter

62mm Bore TB
76mm Ideal Intake Diameter

65mm Bore TB
82mm Ideal Intake Diameter

Determining Intake Length
:
A suggested starting point for the length of a tube with peak torque at 6000 rpm is 13 in.

You add 1.7 in. for every 1000 rpm that you want to move the peak torque below 6000.

Or subtract 1.7 in. for every 1000 rpm you want to move the peak torque above 6000.


ex.
Peak Trq. we want 4500
6000 - 4500 = 1500
we want 1500 so 1.7 x 1.5 = 2.6
13 + 2.6 = 15.6 in is our Ideal Intake Legnth



And that's pretty much all that I got through, I know that cams and overlap and what not still play a roll in this but these are just general measurements which are fine by me. I hope you guys found this as interesting as I did.




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Last edited by Scoot; 01-21-2008 at 10:35 PM.
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#2 Old 01-10-2008, 03:49 PM
 
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wow man.. thats awosme..

sticky?
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#3 Old 01-10-2008, 05:25 PM
 
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damn nice post ill have to measure my runners now

my build thread

http://www.240sxforums.com/forums/sh...09#post1139909

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#4 Old 01-11-2008, 12:48 AM
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#5 Old 01-13-2008, 03:13 AM
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I say Sticky since I've seen alot of ppl asking about AM Intake Mani's for the KA, also the good Intake info



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#6 Old 01-13-2008, 12:37 PM
 
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werd..sticky this. i looked for something like it in the stickies, but couldnt find it. i think, since the KA is becoming ever more popular to mod, that this would be a great sticky



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#7 Old 01-13-2008, 01:45 PM
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Very much so, but um yeah, no ones stickied it yet lol



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#8 Old 01-15-2008, 10:01 AM
 
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nice post. I also vote for teh sticky.

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#9 Old 01-15-2008, 10:59 PM
 
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#10 Old 01-16-2008, 09:25 AM
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When I made my intake manifold for my ITB project, I made up a spread sheet for playing with power band and intake length ( as well as a few other things..)

Feel free to play with it...

http://riley-music.com/BowsStuff/Tun...ustdesigns.xls

it is setup to tune for the different pulses.. the first pulse would require a longer intake than the second pulse, etc...

The idea of tuning for the pulses mean the the air will be rushing into the cylinder at the right time, as apposed to being stagnant in the cylinder, or actually traveling out of the intake, away from the head when the valve opens

Bow

S13 owner since 1997, E85 burner since June 2007



Notice: Reading the Factory Service Manual has been known to be educational and prevent the asking of retarded questions on public internet forums.

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#11 Old 01-16-2008, 09:36 AM
 
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the only issue i have with the OP was that the intake runner diameter equation uses 95% for the VE of the KA.

only in our wildest wet dreams could we hope to acheive even two-thirds of that. the otto cyle combustion engine is doomed with a horrible VE, regardless of what we do to it. some fo the really good flowing honda engines(K, F, etc.) can only even attain something like 70-75 percent. we probably only are in the 60% range.

trying to use something as vague as VE to calculate something else is going to be a true wild goose chase since you have to know the exact moles and volume of fuel/air entering a system(<-read: engine) to even get a fair idea of the VE.

i honestly think youd get more realistic results if using a value closer to 60-65% to figure out that calculation.

just wanted to bring that up for discussion.

240-kid : awesome writeup, very well done, and i commend you on your effort(and i will definately be visiting this post again in the near future).
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#12 Old 01-16-2008, 11:44 AM
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Done deal, thank you for your input



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#13 Old 01-24-2008, 02:02 PM
 
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#14 Old 03-26-2008, 03:00 PM
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Was wondering if anyone Found another AM intake Mani???

I wanna find/make one thats N/A Friendly



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#15 Old 03-26-2008, 03:06 PM
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I may have to hit up klattr1 to see whats up w/ his mani




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