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Old 10-26-2009, 01:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
 

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ka24e tick... Not lifters!

Ok guys, i have a good one for you. This shit has me stumped!

1990 coupe
Ka24e
156,000

Everything is pretty much listed in my build thread (Lucky13garage's bank account), but i dont get too many visitors and im stumped so i figured i would ask.

I just recently re-did my timing guides and my tensinor. The chain was never moved and lined up prefect with the crank and the cam. It still does to this point.

New timing guides
New timing cover
New oil pick up tube
New water pump
New thermostat
All gaskets and oil seals replaced, and i mean ALL of them
L28 oil pump upgrade with gasket

Before i tore my motor apart it ran great aside from the fact the timing chain was rubbing on the coolent passage via the driver side due to a broken timing guide and worn tensinor. Tore everything apart, installed all my parts ( I like to pay decent attention to detail) and reassembled. I had a tick at first, which i didn't find odd seeing as how the motor was down for a good month and i figured the lifters needed time to prime. The tick never went away, and procedded to get worse. Being scared, i tore everything apart a second time, double checked my work and re-installed everything with new gaskets.

The tick remains.

Me and a buddy have tracked the sound down to the fuel system with a stethescope. It's comming from every injector, some more than others and i can faintly hear it in the fuel rail. I say again, the initial timing was never touched, and lines up prefect to this moment. It's also a very loud tick... With the hood closed and the car sitting about 50 or 60 feet away from the garage its noticable, and very annoying.

It rises with load and RPM's, which correct me please if i am wrong but the injectors fire faster with a rise in engine speed... So it is possible for this sound to be the injectors. What has me is how loud and completley random this is. It never did this before i tore it apart is what i mean by random. The sound never decreases, only when i retard the ignition timing and when i advance it the sound gets worse which leads me to belive its a part directly affected to the rotation of the motor.

With the engine running i remove the oil filer cap and the sound gets no worse or no better. Now i can safley assume it is not a lifter problem..... Right? With the motor running i pulled each cylinders plug wire carfully and the sound presummed to get a TINY bit better but stayed no matter what wire i had dissconected.

There is no sound comming from the exhaust manifold anywere in the system that even remotly sounds like this. (There is a small leak from the downpipe to the header).

My thought is the Fuel pressure dampner, but i cannot seem to find any solid proof of a damper beyond my theory that the FPR doubles and a damper for this motor. I see no other possible way or place for a damper on this system, and the OEM fuel delivery pump from what i can find does not come with one, nore is there one in the tank.

Sorry for the headace, but you can only imagine how my head feels. There are a couple guys around the web who are also experincing this problem, most being ka24e's in 510 datsons and such... We are really stumped, and i just dont think an injector could get that loud no matter how old it is.

There is a link to some videos of this problem on the ka24e in a 510 in my build thread. PLEASE! Any help period would be appreciated! Help us out guys and gals!
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Old 10-26-2009, 03:51 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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The injectors are pretty loud, and what about clutch/TO bearing chatter? Also, have you checked fore and aft movement on the rockers? Sometimes the keepers can get a little sloppy causing them to slide on the rocker shaft.
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Old 10-26-2009, 04:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Oh, and did you loc-tite the timing guide bolts? I had both bolts back out on me once, and lucky I heard it before the crank gear crushed the guide up, or jumped time.
I couldn't believe it when I saw it, but both bolts managed to back out.
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Old 10-26-2009, 04:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
 

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I thought of something being loose in the clutch ass. too but there is no noise at all from anywhere near the bell housing. From what i can hear at least everything sounds fine. I did loc-tite all the bolts including the tensinor bolts, but it was just a very light coating so it is possible they could have backed out. I increased the tourqe on those bolts all +2 pounds because i have heard horror stories of them coming loose after a fresh rebuild.

I waited 28 hours before starting the car after it was fully assembled. With the cam cover removed everthing seems to be in tacked down there. If i remove the oil filler cap the sound incraeses, but not even like a quarter decible or so. It isn't noticably louder unless you really really listen, and this sound is horride.

We put that stethescope on almost every square inch of this motor and the ONLY place that i could even remotly hear this sound is anywere in the fuel system. Im going to play with it a bit more today and see what i can come up with.

Any more advice would be the tits! Haha
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Old 10-26-2009, 04:15 PM   #5 (permalink)
 

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I don't think this will make any matter but just incase i am completley missing something, my battery is on its last leg and doesn't want to hold a charge very well. But that chatter is not comming from the ALT... Yeah, we checked that too.

Fore-warning! Anytime you put metal on the starter or the ALT be very careful as to not touch anything electrical. We almost got a nice zap but the arc was not big enought to hit the steth-o-scope tube.
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Old 10-26-2009, 04:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Fuel system? I cant think of anything that would causing a tick other than injectors. Long shot, but what about the PCV ball bouncing back and forth?
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Old 10-26-2009, 05:13 PM   #7 (permalink)
 

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Not PCV... No noise what-so-ever from that. Just air flow.

I just played with the stethescope (My ears feel very funny right about now, haha) and its the injectors. Im almost 90%. If i held the scope on the injector i could hear the sound plain as day, and if i kept it there and jumped the idel it would get louder, cut out for a slit second, and come right back. All of them are about the same, excapt Cly #1 is a tad bit louder.

Fuel pump going out? FPR clogged? It has to be something besides the injectors because they all started ticking at once.

I have a set of stock SR20DET injectors laying here but no adjustable regulator, and i dont think the stock one will suffic. What do you think?
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Old 10-26-2009, 05:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Will the SR injectors fit the SOHC rail? If you can make it work, run it on E85.
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Old 10-26-2009, 05:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
 

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I have no clue. I never tried... Had them on an aftermarket set-up in my old duel cam KA. I just put in a half tank of 91!
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Old 10-26-2009, 05:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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91 is weak sauce, lol j/k. If my memories correct, you cannot use SR injectors in the SOHC, but CA18DET's will work if you wanted to run E85.
But SR will fit in the DOHC KA's.
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Old 10-26-2009, 05:53 PM   #11 (permalink)
 

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Correct. Your memory is pretty damn good!



Left is SR20ET, right is KA24E

All that pain saking work for nothing. Ha
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Last edited by Lucky13garage.; 10-26-2009 at 05:53 PM. Reason: Im an idiot
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Old 10-26-2009, 06:19 PM   #12 (permalink)
 

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Removed the rail and injectors. Wipped them off with a rag soaked in 91 octane. Replaced a worn out line on the bottom of the EGR CS... Lost a bolt that mates the EGR SC to the top manifold. Ticking is gone. WTF?!?!?! Ok, so it is now not AS noticable.

Still cant find that damn bolt!
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Old 10-27-2009, 10:07 AM   #13 (permalink)
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KA24DE/SR20DET injectors are side/galley feed.

KA24E/CA18ET injectors are top feed.

CA injectors are the same size as SR injectors 370cc.

Not interchangeable between the KA24E and KA24DE...


I have a set of CA18ET injectors if you are interested... I was going to run them on my ITBs, but the Honda S2000 injectors are 390cc and drop into the throttle bodies without modification...
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Old 10-27-2009, 10:47 AM   #14 (permalink)
 

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Pm me with pricing and maybe a picture? And also, tell me what exhaust you are running! I wont actually need the injectors untill like mid next summer if these ones hold out... but it wouldn't hurt to have them ready.
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