Ka24e Timing Off? - Nissan 240SX Forums
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#1 Old 02-09-2010, 08:11 PM
 
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Ka24e Timing Off?

I know this is a very uninteresting topic, but is also one of the most frustrating things I have ever done with cars. I have owned this 1990 240sx for about a year now. It has been an ongoing process of throwing in a (known working Ka24e into the car, to the stage where I am at a loss now. I have covered anything and everything trying to get this car to run. I am about 99% sure that it has something to do with the timing. Ive searched on how everybody has done their KA24E ignition timing, firing order 1342 (1 being the bottom right on the distributor cap if your facing the driver side fender) and I am completely at a loss on what to do anymore with my 90 240sx.

The injectors spit fuel perfectly, im getting amazing spark, and compression is dead on also...

So that leaves me to the dreaded timing...

From what I have understood, TDC is the 5th tab on the crank pulley -5 (0) 5 10 15 20 and I am certain I am on the compression stroke due to holding my finger over a spark plug hole while turning the crank manually and feeling some air shoot out. My cam timing I believe is dead on I did not have time to pull the valve cover off and get a pic, but it shows the key hole sitting at 12 O clock when I am on TDC (5th marker on the crank pulley). Correct me if I am wrong.

I have read some post where people have the Oil Pump Spindle sitting straight up and down like a backwards "D" which is what I have been going by. I have pics to show where its at now which I do notice is a few degrees off. The car turns over and wants to fire up but it just does not kick in... there was one time a few weeks ago where it started and I had it going for 10 seconds but my injector was leaking fuel really bad so I didn't want to take the chance until I fixed the leak...

1 week after I go to crank it and it doesn't want to start.... So here are some pics of what its at right now...

I know the spindle should be sitting at exactly 12 O clock like a backwards "D"


I also see that everyone says the rotor should point at about 5 O clock as mine is around 3:30-4



Could something this little (being a few degrees off) keep my car from starting like its been doing?
It would be nice to drive to college in a 240 instead of a 2001 Honda Civic
I would appreciate any help given to me at the point because it has to be something really simple....
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#2 Old 02-09-2010, 08:26 PM
 
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Your 1 tooth advanced on the drive gear. The first pic shows the gear advanced, you'll need to remove the oil pump and install the gear straight up (backwards " D") and it should fire up.
It should still start, but if and when it does its going to run really rough and want to die. I've never seen it happen before, but check for excessive play in the drive gear. Stick a pair of needle nose pliers on the half moon of the drive gear (while its installed) and try to spin it back and forth. There should be hardly any play.
Re-install the drive gear and try it again.
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#3 Old 02-11-2010, 06:34 PM
 
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Well today I set the engine to TDC and set the spindle exactly like a backwards D not a tooth or anything off and it still just turns over.... I smell a good bit of gas after trying to start it 3-5 times. It did keep backfiring out of the exhaust a few times and there was a poofing sound coming from the fuel filter (new z32 fuel filter) and I believe I seen a puff of white smoke come out of it....

The car sat for a little over a year before I started messing with it. Thoughts of selling it are really coming to my mind because we have covered everything from Compression, Spark, Replacing Injectors, Fuel Pressure Regulator, Fuel Pump, Fuel Filter, I am just at a loss now...

We have tried all suggestions.. Timings 100% on point and still nothing.
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#4 Old 02-11-2010, 06:47 PM
 
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Are you absolutely sure the cam is in the correct position? What were your compression numbers?
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#5 Old 02-11-2010, 07:54 PM
 
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As far as I know when me and my brother (former KA24DET owner) rebuilt the engine he was the one who put the timing chain on it and he says he did his research and put it on right... I do know that the bottom sprocket (dot or keyhole) by the crank is suppose to align with the cam sprocket (dot or keyhole)... I can get some pics in on the cam sprocket... The only thing I can think of is that maybe he didn't align the bottom sprocket point with the cam sprocket and maybe that's giving my oil pump/dizzy an incorrect timing problem (correct me if I am wrong).

As far as compression numbers go, the lowest out of all cylinders was 155.
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#6 Old 02-11-2010, 10:57 PM
 
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k, so put your crank pulley at TDC (0)
then, put your cam sproket on, and there should be a small punch mark, that punch mark needs to be at exactly 3 o'clock, with the crank at tdc.

Then, take your distributor, and put it at 4' oclock. tape it down good, or have someone hold it
Now, put your oil pump in. since it only aligns one way with the dizzy, it will have to go in at correct timing. its gonna be a bitch, but basically you just need to jiggle, turn, twist slightly, and make the pump fit. After its in, you an use the bolts on the distributor to adjust your ignition timing correctly.

Do what i say and it will guaranteed be in correct timing

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#7 Old 02-11-2010, 11:16 PM
 
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.....? ^ The only thing that is going to do is piss off a couple people, and waste a lot of time. Install it so you see the half moon at 12 o'clock and your done. Just make sure its on the compression stoke.
Do these steps (if you haven't already):
1. Set crank to 0* TDC (red mark, second from the left)
2. Remove valve cover and make sure you see this:

*If the key way is at 6 o'clock, your on the exhaust stroke*

4. Once the cam/crank are inspected and aligned to spec, install the oil pump/drive gear.
5. Install the oil pump/drive gear just like before. Half moon should look like a backwards "D"
6. Start engine, adjust timing to 15* +/- 2*
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#8 Old 02-12-2010, 02:33 PM
 
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Thank you for taking the time out to help me... I will pop the valve cover off here in just a minute and get pics of the cam timing at TDC and ill post pics of the dizzy and how the oil pump is now.
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#9 Old 02-12-2010, 03:35 PM
 
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problem with installing the oil pump first is that if you dont align the shaft correctly, i.e. one spline off, it will still run like shit. and a "backwards D" doesnt seem very helpful to me.. depends on what angle you look at it? the oil pump and distributor can only align one way, but can align any way on the crankshaft. The critical factor is the distributor so i would set that first. Ive done it both ways, installing the oil pump first is stupid. I dont care if thats what manuals say, theres usually easier ways to do things besides by the book. case and point, removing the cylinder head for R&I of the front cover... Not necessary

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#10 Old 02-12-2010, 03:51 PM
 
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Ok so I am laughing right now because yesterday when we set the oil pump my brother didn't really check if we were on te right stroke he just stuck a screw driver in to see if the engine was at TDC... So thinking we were right we installed the oil pump and tried to start well it didnt....

I just ligned up the car to TDC (on the compression stroke, felt air coming out of the spark plug holes) and heres what my cam looks like....






I believe that is right so I decided to take a pic of my firing order (just in case)

1342


But when I went to pull the distributor cap off I noticed my button was pointing at like my 4th Spark Plug on the cap....
So I checked the oil pump and boom...



When I set it before it was completely opposite of what is is now... which is a D..... So I take it we were on the wrong stroke when we set it?
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#11 Old 02-12-2010, 06:22 PM
 
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Ok so I went ahead and re installed the oil pump with everything set (in the previous pictures...) I couldn't get the D exactly like a backwards D so I put it in and its a backwards D thats sitting at 1 and 7 o clock.... Car still wont start.
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#12 Old 02-12-2010, 08:04 PM
 
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Well the cam looks good. 1 and 7 would mean its slightly retarded but it should still start. Do you have another distributor you can try? It kinda sounds like a bad CAS, or its just not hooked up (double check it). If you can check codes and see if anything pops up.
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#13 Old 02-13-2010, 10:03 AM
 
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the car should still start even if the timing is off. it sounds like a fuel problem. check and see if you put the pressure line in the correct spot i bet thats your problem.

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#14 Old 02-13-2010, 05:52 PM
 
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We have checked the ECU a few times actually... Always get code 55 (no errors). the dizzy was hooked up but we also yeah tried another distributor it was still doing the exact same thing... We even bought a new rotor button and dist. cap just in case but still nothing.... We have had the fuel lines reversed before and we think that's where they go... I will post pics of them here in just a little bit... Like I did say... the new z32 fuel filter makes a puffing sound and shoots out white smoke (at times) but the injectors still spray fuel just fine... Even when I fired it up last night I smelt a lot of fuel in the engine

Last edited by SingleSlammer; 02-13-2010 at 09:01 PM.
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#15 Old 02-13-2010, 08:49 PM
 
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I have the fuel lines correct I believe... The Fuel filter hose connects to the fuel rail hose, and the fuel tank hose I guess it is lol or return line, connects to the fuel pressure regulator like this...





And here's the lines from the fuel filter and the other fuel line.



Fuel filter and line beside it just for better visuals.




Is this correct?
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#16 Old 02-13-2010, 09:07 PM
 
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Yes I believe it is. The line with the fuel filter goes to the long hardline on the fuel rail. The line coming off the fuel pressure reg is the return line.
You are getting spark right?
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#17 Old 02-13-2010, 10:32 PM
 
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Yes I am getting excellent spark.... Now you can see why I am at a loss..... The only thing I can think of is MAYBE... the lines that connect to the fuel pump itself could be reversed???? but that has to be correct right since I am getting fuel to the injectors?
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#18 Old 02-13-2010, 10:32 PM
 
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cant tell by the pic but the pressure should be under the filter so the gas can get filtered then going into the rail but try to switch the lines arround and see what happens.

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#19 Old 02-13-2010, 10:40 PM
 
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Thing about that is we have taken off the hose to the fuel filter and turned the ignition on to see if the fuel filter would spit out fuel and it did... Not sure if it spit out enough though... I can get a pic from under the fuel filter if needed... I didn't think it was necessary.
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#20 Old 02-13-2010, 10:53 PM
 
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no just try to switch the one comming from the top of the filter to the one next to it and if it starts then you know what is your pressure. but spray break fluid or starter fluid into the throttle body into the intake manifold and see if it would start.

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#21 Old 02-13-2010, 11:07 PM
 
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I was just thinking... We put in an almost new fuel pump when I had first received the car... What are the chances I may have switched the two lines ( one being a return line and one being one that runs from the fuel pump all the way to the fuel filter etc etc) If they were reversed would I still be smelling gas when I try to start the car a few times....

We are even smelling gas from the spark plugs after trying to start it, could the lines still be wrong even if we are smelling gas like this?
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#22 Old 02-14-2010, 12:50 AM
 
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Are the plugs gas soaked? Looking at the top of the fuel pump bracket, the pressure line is on the right (worm clamp), and the return is on the left (regular clamp you remove with pliers).
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#23 Old 02-14-2010, 01:01 AM
 
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ok let us know we will find your problem.

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#24 Old 02-14-2010, 02:15 AM
 
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The spark plugs smell like gas has just been poured all over it...
Here is what it looks like now but we have taken the hoses off multiple times I can't be sure that these clamps were on this way every single time we put it back together they could have been swapped.
I also am posting another picture (2nd) of what the lines looks like under the fuel filter.... the hoses from the fuel pump run down to a point in the engine bay to where they are parallel (one on top, and one on bottom of each other). The hose connecting to the bottom of the fuel filter is connecting to the one on top as shown in the (2nd) picture...





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#25 Old 02-14-2010, 03:48 AM
 
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*ka24e* The posts made by this user are trust worthy*ka24e* The posts made by this user are trust worthy*ka24e* The posts made by this user are trust worthy*ka24e* The posts made by this user are trust worthy*ka24e* The posts made by this user are trust worthy*ka24e* The posts made by this user are trust worthy*ka24e* The posts made by this user are trust worthy*ka24e* The posts made by this user are trust worthy*ka24e* The posts made by this user are trust worthy*ka24e* The posts made by this user are trust worthy*ka24e* The posts made by this user are trust worthy
Points: 2,147,501,595, Level: 100
Points: 2,147,501,595, Level: 100 Points: 2,147,501,595, Level: 100 Points: 2,147,501,595, Level: 100
Activity: 16%
Activity: 16% Activity: 16% Activity: 16%
Man, I don't know. Injectors stuck open maybe. Can you ohm them?
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