CA motors anyone?

[Chris69427]

Just noticed that this was the SR and CA section and there's like nothing on the CA!!! I was at 240sx.org and someone mentioned that if you want 200-350rwhp you should go with the SR since it's easily modded to that range, but after that (350-500rwhp), it'd be cheaper to use the CA since the SR would hafta be sleeved etc. since it's an aluminum block and all... both motors would have to be built up, obviously.

So are there any 500hp CA motors out there? What'd you do to accomplish this?
1) I was thinking of an SR20 crank in a CA18 to make a CA19 since the SR crank is good to 500hp, is this one of the "tricks"?
2) I'd also imagine I'd need forged rods and pistons, right?
3) What size turbo would generate 500+hp numbers on the chassis dyno with a small CA? On a related note, what size intercooler would fit this combo and is there a junkyard IC that would do?
4) If I stayed at the low 500hp side, would the combo still be reasonably streetable? (I don't mean a fast commuter; I've driven without boost all my life, it can't be that bad, lol!)

Now that I'm planning on living with the KA24DE until I graduate from college and get a real job, lol, I'm thinking that by then, I can afford to build a real firebreathing motor to replace the tired KA in my commuter... however, I still want it to be semi-affordable and I wanna find out what I'm getting into too!

Thanks in advance!
Later,
Chris

[DrDubbleB]

Personally I feel that it's really the other way around. Anything under 300hp and you should go CA. When you're talking about a 500hp engine, my oh my, that would cause some lag with a CA (and SR for that matter, but it'd be much worse w/ the CA). The more turbo lag an engine has, the less streetable it becomes.

The CAs a great engine, but I think for a high horsepower beast you'd be better off sticking with an SR or a KA, or even going with an RB of some sort (20, 25).

Yes, at that horsepower you would need forged pistons and rods, and it wouldn't hurt to get a knife edged crank. You would also need to replace the valves and valve springs with stronger stuff (IE titanium). You have to understand that you can't just upgrade the engine, you also have to upgrade the chassis, suspension and braking components to go along with all of the extra power. There's a world of work that would have to go into creating something like that...I'll go into that more later if it comes to that.

Since you said that you're still in school, I want to ask you a couple of questions, and I mean no offense by them at all, I'm only trying to help you understand a couple of things. Do you realise how ungodly fast a 500rwhp car that weighs 2800 lbs is? Have you driven any car that has 320rwhp or more?

If you answered "no" to either of those questions, then you are in over your head. I suggest taking it slow. Do lots of research and find out which engine is truly right for you. Once you make your decision get the engine and install it with basic bolt-ons. Then in steps upgrade the engine. This way you get used to the extra power and have time to save some money in case something goes wrong.

Anyways, I'll let you respond now, and I'll just sit and wait.

[SirDoc99]

My buddy is pushing 500 but he's done an insane ammount of work to the car. An SR runs at somewhere around 200-220hp stock and since they recently released the S15 with an SR there will no doubt be many parts for the SR. The CA hasn't been produced in over a decade and there are minimal parts for it. My other buddy with an SR is also pushing around 525 or so and I'd take that car over the other guy with the CA any day. The bro in the SR can smoke his Nitto Extreme Drag tires through 4th gear. That car is almost undrivable it has soo much power. When you get in the 500hp range it's almost not streetable, you'll burn about at least $50+ worth of gas a week. I burn about $30 and we've got 105 octane from the pump here. I've got a CA in my 180 now (I'm in japan) and I plan to buy an SR, build it up and drop it in my car, no sense putting it in and doing unneeded stress on the engine. So enough babbleing if you want 550+hp then go SR. If you want 500 from a CA, you're looking at boring out to a CA20 with the CA20 cams and SR20 forged pistons just to begin. Hell get a custom made Twin Turbo manifold while your at it with a pair of T88s. You'll get some HP then, you'll only run once and blow the engine but it'll be a fun ride. Also there's a guy here who has an RB26DETT in his Silvia and he has to lock up his brakes at the end of the 1/4 to stop since there's so much weight in the front of that little car. The RB20 doesn't have nearly the part selection as the SR and the RB25 is (like the RB26) too heavy for and decently handeling to be acheved.

[boost junky]

I'm new to this forum, but spinning nitto 555r's isn't that inpressive. I used to spin half way though 3rd and break them loose in 4th in my neon at the track. Only things done were some bolt-ons and 100shot of nitrous, everything else was stock.

[Chris69427]

Good points, everyone. Lemme answer some q's first, though.

DrDubbleB-- I am very new to turbo motors, and haven't had much experience with 'em. (V8 guy myself, see my sig. I always used to tell my import-driving friends that I would wipe the floor with 'em if I had a turbo on my 305... how does 1200hp sound?)However, my buddy's RX7 has a solid 300rwhp (dynoed at 287 before he did some more to it, and he's estimating 320rwhp) and that thing's about the same weight as the 240sx (a little lighter at 2700lbs) and that's about as much power as I'd need/want on the street. Very impressive! However, I'm looking into the future and thinkin' I'll probably get used to that and want more, so I'm thinking if I'm gonna swap motors, I might as well put in the work first and then drop it in... but good point about getting used to the power and upgrading gradually. I'm planning to upgrade the KA in the meantime (get used to the car, and added power) and then take the big jump to 400-500rwhp at once from around 300 or so with the upgraded nitrous'd or turbo'd KA...

SirDoc99-- Good points about parts availability; that's definitely something to think about. I was thinking about that RB26DETT skyline motor too (after all we're talking two years or so from now, so who knows, I may have money, lol!) but the weight thing scared me away as well as the price. A cheaper route, I thought would be a VG30DETT Z32 motor since they're readily available used in the US and I could get 700hp out of the stock internals... but that too would be heavy. Gas is also a concern. I'm ditching my current dinosaur-killer because it was poorly made and even less well taken care of (dang previous owners!) but I'm also lookin' forward to not having to fill up once a week!!! I hear even turbo KA guys with 240rwhp still get a good 30mpg. ...However, it makes you wonder since a new Vette gets 28mpg with a 405hp n/a V8... sorry, off topic, and it'd be way more than a KA-pwred 240sx, lol!

So the general consensus is 500hp is better suited to the SR motor. Are we talking about something as exotic as Signals SR22DET stroker with a single T88 and over 600hp?? I know the SR crank is good to 500hp so if I stop there, I won't need that stroker kit, will I? So just forged internals, head, valve and cam work... what else? Don't worry about the non-motor-related stuff, by the time I get to the engine swap, I'll have everything else fortified nicely! One of the advantages of waiting, I guess...

Thanks for the discussion, guys, good to know your thoughts on this idea!
Later,
Chris

[SirDoc99]

boost junky: I was just saying he wasn't running some lame radials, they go have some pretty good grip for radials in my opinion. And that 100shot NOS might have a little bit to do with it to

Chris69427: I believe the guy in the 180sx with an SR here is bored out to 2.2. I think he's also running a wastegated T06 with a boat load of other mods. But like I said, if you want to make 300 easily for around $500-$600 (here that much) with the potental for 500+ SR all the way.

[Chris69427]

Chris69427: I believe the guy in the 180sx with an SR here is bored out to 2.2. I think he's also running a wastegated T06 with a boat load of other mods.

TO6 doesn't sound too radical for the street... but is it bored out to 2.2L??? I didn't know you could get two tenths of a liter from boring, are you sure that's not a stroker crank? I know a Chevy 250 can be bored out to 357 or so cubic inches, but I doubt the 5.7L changed to more than 5.8L... With a stroker crank (from a 400cid Chevy) you only get to about 6.2-3L-ish (rough estimate, but its a 383). So using a 2.4L crank in an SR20 should give you an SR22... not saying that's what he did, but that's how I thought it worked.

But like I said, if you want to make 300 easily for around $500-$600 (here that much) with the potental for 500+ SR all the way.

$500-600 worth of mods, right, not the price of the SR... the cheapest I found the motor was Afterdark's price of $2200 ($2400 shipped to my door) which includes everything (motor, tranny, turbo, ecu, smic...), but that's stock (205hp)... it'd only take $600 to get it to 320rwhp??? How? You'd need a fmic, a bigger turbo (T25 sucks), a boost controller, injectors, fuel computer...etc. right? Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean...? Please enlighten me, lol!
Later,
Chris

[DrDubbleB]

Yeah, I was just making sure that you knew what you were getting into man, I didn't want to tell some 16 year old how to mod his car so that it has 500+ rwhp and then have him get it back from the shop and wreck it on his inaugural drive.

You will not need a bore/stroke kit turning it into an SR21DET (Tomei) or SR22DET (JUN and Signal) in order to reach your HP goal. Those kits do make it much safer to get to though, so it is something to consider. You are going to have to start thinking about a knife edged crank once you hit the 500 mark, but other than that and what you have listed...there are only two things that I want to stress: A Rocker Arm Stopper (this is a must...it should be your very first mod to the SR) and fuel pump/injectors (obviously w/ more power you need more fuel).

Now, I think (and hope) what SirDoc99 meant was $5k-$6k to get to about 320rwhp (including the engine), but it might be a little bit more or a little less, depending on if you will be doing the work yourself or not. Remember you'd need:

Upgraded Turbo
FMIC
BOV
Bigger Injectors
Higher flowing fuel pump
Z32 MAFS wouldn't be a bad idea
Boost Controller
and a reprogrammed ECU

Also at that time, it would be a good idea to get gauges if you hadn't already (the three most important listed):

Boost
A/F
Oil Pressure

So there's a lot to consider. SirDoc99, who has the SR22DET on these forums?

[rco8786]

Originally Posted by boost junky

I'm new to this forum, but spinning nitto 555r's isn't that inpressive. I used to spin half way though 3rd and break them loose in 4th in my neon at the track. Only things done were some bolt-ons and 100shot of nitrous, everything else was stock.

Im gonna have to call BS on that one...let's see a video of a neon spinning 555r's thru third w/ bolt ons.

[Thirteenlashes]

Originally Posted by rco8786

Im gonna have to call BS on that one...let's see a video of a neon spinning 555r's thru third w/ bolt ons.

I am guessing it was wet and he had an open diff., but even then...

[Sickbling]

Originally Posted by boost junky

I'm new to this forum, but spinning nitto 555r's isn't that inpressive. I used to spin half way though 3rd and break them loose in 4th in my neon at the track. Only things done were some bolt-ons and 100shot of nitrous, everything else was stock.

oh SHIT 100 SHOTS? on stock neon motor? wow did the engine die haha? man mad abbuse haaha

[boost junky]

Originally Posted by rco8786

Im gonna have to call BS on that one...let's see a video of a neon spinning 555r's thru third w/ bolt ons.

If you missed I was running 100 Shot of nitrous. The best time was 13.90 at 102MPH. I dont know how much you know about drag racing but 13.9 is a shitty time for 102 MPH. 60 foots weren't bad 2.20(not good for a "Drag Radial"). I wasnt hittin the bottle till around the 60 foot mark any way. Leaving the line 3500 rpm sliping clutch because those great tires couldnt stick to the track with out the bottle! It was at an IHRA track. The car was open wheel but both wheels spun and I did heat the tires up. Not too hot because they are a radial and the will get greasy.
The car
98 Neon R/T
From behinde the front seats back was removed including side impact bar
Factory wing removed
No radio or speakers
Floor insulation removed from firewall back
AF/X Underdrive pully
Crane DIS ignition with timing retard
Pace Setter Header uncapped
Air conditioner and power steering completly removed
56mm Throttle body
Ported intake manifold
Ice man intake
Holly 190LPH fuel pump
Adjustable Fuel Press Reg
Clutch Masters Stage3 Clutch and press plate (also crap)
95 Neon flywheel (little bit bigger clutch)
NGK spark plugs 2 ranges colder
Crane Fire wires
Factory R/T wheels (pretty light)
Nitrous Works EFI kit with purge
Coil-over Suspension
All daily driven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!