im going to be running AGX with tein s-tech, and i was wondering if its true that ull get longer life running them on the stiffest setting?
AGX question
womenbeshoppin
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im going to be running AGX with tein s-tech, and i was wondering if its true that ull get longer life running them on the stiffest setting?
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from wat i read, yes
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im just confused because i also heard u run them on soft to make them last long, and not to run them on stiff untell after 500 miles. i just dont want these things to leak/blow out on me anytime soon.
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i would like to know as well im looking at buying some in the near future
*not looking to thread hijack... but here's some relevant questions:
What's the operating range of DROP on the AGX? I know they don't advocate installing them with Eibach Sportlines, for example, because of the 1.8"/1.5" drop (correct me if i'm wrong), which is too low for the shock compression range of the AGX's.
I'm thinking of getting the AGX's (I like easy adjustabilty) and installing them on my hatch with RS*R Race Springs, which have stiffer spring rates than both eibachs as well as the S-Techs, i think.
Does this make a good combo...a better match of shock and spring characteristics? Do stiffer spring rates translate into longer life shocks? Do AGX settings affect shock life? (repeat of OP's question)
I know the all-knowing raen recommends Koni Yellow shocks with RS*R Race springs, but I want the quick adjustability of the AGX's. My shock/spring setup will be for 99% daily-driver NYC streets, not for drift or the track.
Anyone have any input?
What's the operating range of DROP on the AGX? I know they don't advocate installing them with Eibach Sportlines, for example, because of the 1.8"/1.5" drop (correct me if i'm wrong), which is too low for the shock compression range of the AGX's.
I'm thinking of getting the AGX's (I like easy adjustabilty) and installing them on my hatch with RS*R Race Springs, which have stiffer spring rates than both eibachs as well as the S-Techs, i think.
Does this make a good combo...a better match of shock and spring characteristics? Do stiffer spring rates translate into longer life shocks? Do AGX settings affect shock life? (repeat of OP's question)
I know the all-knowing raen recommends Koni Yellow shocks with RS*R Race springs, but I want the quick adjustability of the AGX's. My shock/spring setup will be for 99% daily-driver NYC streets, not for drift or the track.
Anyone have any input?
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I keep my agx shocks on the stiffest setting 4 front and 8 back. i've been under the impression that less travel = longer life. I would not reccomend lowering a car more than 1.5" on agx shocks, they just cant really handle much more. i use prokits and like them, even though they are a tad soft compared to rsr race springs and are only about 1" lower than stock height
from my own research, ive found that setting them stiffer will allow longer life.
and i dont think people are giving AGX's enough credit. i have mine mated with Megan Racing springs, which have spring rates that rival coilovers (quite a bit stiffer than any other spring mentioned in this thread) and drop the car 2" and my AGX's havent had a single problem, and i dont even have them set that stiff (2 front, 4 back)
and i dont think people are giving AGX's enough credit. i have mine mated with Megan Racing springs, which have spring rates that rival coilovers (quite a bit stiffer than any other spring mentioned in this thread) and drop the car 2" and my AGX's havent had a single problem, and i dont even have them set that stiff (2 front, 4 back)
from NICO suspension sticky:
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KYB AGX Valving Stiffness per Adjustment
Setting#:
Relative Value
1 - Same as Factory 100
2 - Same as our GR2 products (10~15% firmer than Factory) 115
3 - 50% firmer than #2 172
4 - 30% firmer than #3 223
For an eight position adjustable product, the damping force values are
approx. the following:
With #2 being Factory at a relative value of 100,
#1 = 95 (5% softer than Factory )
#2 = 100 (Factory damping force)
#3 = 107.5 (7.5% firmer than Factory)
#4 = 115 (15% firmer than Factory)(GR-2)
#5 = 143.5 (43.5% firmer than Factory)
#6 = 172 (72% firmer than Factory)
#7 = 197.5 (97.5 firmer than Factory)
#8 = 223 (123 % firmer than Factory)
also from KYB: "If you plan on using the AGX line with this Eibach Sportlines you will have to have the setting no lower than 3 front and 6 rear. With this drop for the long run and road conditions you will shorten the life of those shocks/struts."
-
-
KYB AGX Valving Stiffness per Adjustment
Setting#:
Relative Value
1 - Same as Factory 100
2 - Same as our GR2 products (10~15% firmer than Factory) 115
3 - 50% firmer than #2 172
4 - 30% firmer than #3 223
For an eight position adjustable product, the damping force values are
approx. the following:
With #2 being Factory at a relative value of 100,
#1 = 95 (5% softer than Factory )
#2 = 100 (Factory damping force)
#3 = 107.5 (7.5% firmer than Factory)
#4 = 115 (15% firmer than Factory)(GR-2)
#5 = 143.5 (43.5% firmer than Factory)
#6 = 172 (72% firmer than Factory)
#7 = 197.5 (97.5 firmer than Factory)
#8 = 223 (123 % firmer than Factory)
also from KYB: "If you plan on using the AGX line with this Eibach Sportlines you will have to have the setting no lower than 3 front and 6 rear. With this drop for the long run and road conditions you will shorten the life of those shocks/struts."
also from the sticky FAQ:
Spring rate and ride height information
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STOCK
Spring Rate - F : 2.0kg/mm (2.2 for sport package?)
Spring Rate - R : 2.0kg/mm (2.2 for sport package?)
Ride Height - F : 0"
Ride Height - R : 0"
EIBACH PROKIT
Spring Rate - F : 1.84~1.92kg/mm
Spring Rate - R : 2.3~2.4kg/mm
Ride Height - F : -1.8" (eibach site) -1" (jnm240 test)
Ride Height - R : -1.6" (eibach site) -.75" (test)
EIBACH SPORTLINE
Spring Rate - F : 1.92~2.0kg/mm
Spring Rate - R : 2.4~2.5kg/mm
Ride Height - F : -2.2" / -1.75" (test)
Ride Height - R : -2.1" / -1.75" (test)
H & R SPORT
Spring Rate - F : 2.0~2.08kg/mm
Spring Rate - R : 2.5~2.6kg/mm
Ride Height - F : -1.3"
Ride Height - R : -1.3"
TEIN S-TECH
(progressive, TEIN only lists the maximal rate)
Spring Rate - F : 3.7
Spring Rate - R : 3.2
Ride Height - F : -1.5"
Ride Height - R : -1.2"
TEIN HIGH-TECH
Spring Rate - F: 3.3 (s13); 3.2 (s14)
Spring Rate - R: 2.9 (s13); 3.1 (s14)
Ride Height - F: -0.9" (s13); -0.7" (s14)
Ride Height - R: -0.6" (s13); -0.4" (s14)
INTRAX SPORT SPRING KIT
Spring Rate - F : (Couldn't get through to tech support)
Spring Rate - R : (Couldn't get through to tech support)
Ride Height - F : -2.25"
Ride Height - R : -2.0"
SUSPENSION TECHNIQUES
Spring Rate - F : 3
Spring Rate - R : 2.66
Ride Height - F : -1.3"
Ride Height - R : -1.3" (?)
WHITELINE CONTROL
Spring Rate - F : S13&S14 = 2.8
Spring Rate - R : S13= 2.36~3.66 S14= 1.91~3.18
Ride Height - F : -1.75"
Ride Height - R : -1.75"
TANABE GF210
Spring Rate - F : 2.9
Spring Rate - R : 2.7
Ride Height - F : -1." to -1.6"
Ride Height - R : -.6" to -1"
RS*R DOWN SPRINGS
Spring Rate - F: 3.0
SPring Rate - R: 3.0
Ride Height - F: -1.6"(s13) -1.0"(s14)
Ride Height - R: -1.2" (s13) -0.6" (s14)
RS*R RACE SPRINGS
Spring Rate - F: 5.0
Spring Rate - R: 4.5(s13) 4.2 (s14)
Ride Height - F: -1.4"
Ride Height - R: -1.2" (s13) -1.0" (s14)
MEGAN RACING LOWERING SPRINGS MR-LS-NS13 (s13):
Springrate F: 6.25kg/mm (350lbs/in)
Springrate R: 4.46kg/mm (250lbs/in)
Ride Height F: 1.75"
Ride Height R: 1.75"
MEGAN RACING LOWERING SPRINGS MR-LS-NS14 (s14):
Springrate F: 6.25kg/mm (350lbs/in)
Springrate R: 4.46kg/mm (250lbs/in)
Ride Height F: 1.75"
Ride Height R: 1.75"
ESPELIR ACTIVE SUPER DOWN -
Front - 3.0kg/mm (168.0 lb/in) ~ drops 1.9"
Rear - 2.4kg/mm (134.4 lb/in) ~ drops 1.1"
KGMM S21 SPORT -
Front - 3.2kg/mm (179.2 lb/in)
Rear - 2.6kg/mm (145 lb/in)
KGMM S21 SUPERSPORT -
Front - 4.6kg/mm (257.6 lb/in)
Rear - 3.8kg/mm (212.8 lb/in)
KGMM DR Race -
Front - 6kg/mm
Rear - 5kg/mm
Ride Height - F: 2.2"
Ride Height - R: 1.2"
5ZIGEN R-RATE -
Front - 2.4 to 5.2kg/mm (134 to 291 lb/in) ~ drops 1.3"
Rear - 1.9 to 5.0kg/mm (106 to 280 lb/in) ~ drops 1.1"
KGMM S21 RACE -
Front - 6.6kg/mm (369.6 lb/in) ~drops ?"
Rear - 5.2kg/mm (291.2 lb/in) ~ drops ?"
Spring rate and ride height information
----------------------------------------
STOCK
Spring Rate - F : 2.0kg/mm (2.2 for sport package?)
Spring Rate - R : 2.0kg/mm (2.2 for sport package?)
Ride Height - F : 0"
Ride Height - R : 0"
EIBACH PROKIT
Spring Rate - F : 1.84~1.92kg/mm
Spring Rate - R : 2.3~2.4kg/mm
Ride Height - F : -1.8" (eibach site) -1" (jnm240 test)
Ride Height - R : -1.6" (eibach site) -.75" (test)
EIBACH SPORTLINE
Spring Rate - F : 1.92~2.0kg/mm
Spring Rate - R : 2.4~2.5kg/mm
Ride Height - F : -2.2" / -1.75" (test)
Ride Height - R : -2.1" / -1.75" (test)
H & R SPORT
Spring Rate - F : 2.0~2.08kg/mm
Spring Rate - R : 2.5~2.6kg/mm
Ride Height - F : -1.3"
Ride Height - R : -1.3"
TEIN S-TECH
(progressive, TEIN only lists the maximal rate)
Spring Rate - F : 3.7
Spring Rate - R : 3.2
Ride Height - F : -1.5"
Ride Height - R : -1.2"
TEIN HIGH-TECH
Spring Rate - F: 3.3 (s13); 3.2 (s14)
Spring Rate - R: 2.9 (s13); 3.1 (s14)
Ride Height - F: -0.9" (s13); -0.7" (s14)
Ride Height - R: -0.6" (s13); -0.4" (s14)
INTRAX SPORT SPRING KIT
Spring Rate - F : (Couldn't get through to tech support)
Spring Rate - R : (Couldn't get through to tech support)
Ride Height - F : -2.25"
Ride Height - R : -2.0"
SUSPENSION TECHNIQUES
Spring Rate - F : 3
Spring Rate - R : 2.66
Ride Height - F : -1.3"
Ride Height - R : -1.3" (?)
WHITELINE CONTROL
Spring Rate - F : S13&S14 = 2.8
Spring Rate - R : S13= 2.36~3.66 S14= 1.91~3.18
Ride Height - F : -1.75"
Ride Height - R : -1.75"
TANABE GF210
Spring Rate - F : 2.9
Spring Rate - R : 2.7
Ride Height - F : -1." to -1.6"
Ride Height - R : -.6" to -1"
RS*R DOWN SPRINGS
Spring Rate - F: 3.0
SPring Rate - R: 3.0
Ride Height - F: -1.6"(s13) -1.0"(s14)
Ride Height - R: -1.2" (s13) -0.6" (s14)
RS*R RACE SPRINGS
Spring Rate - F: 5.0
Spring Rate - R: 4.5(s13) 4.2 (s14)
Ride Height - F: -1.4"
Ride Height - R: -1.2" (s13) -1.0" (s14)
MEGAN RACING LOWERING SPRINGS MR-LS-NS13 (s13):
Springrate F: 6.25kg/mm (350lbs/in)
Springrate R: 4.46kg/mm (250lbs/in)
Ride Height F: 1.75"
Ride Height R: 1.75"
MEGAN RACING LOWERING SPRINGS MR-LS-NS14 (s14):
Springrate F: 6.25kg/mm (350lbs/in)
Springrate R: 4.46kg/mm (250lbs/in)
Ride Height F: 1.75"
Ride Height R: 1.75"
ESPELIR ACTIVE SUPER DOWN -
Front - 3.0kg/mm (168.0 lb/in) ~ drops 1.9"
Rear - 2.4kg/mm (134.4 lb/in) ~ drops 1.1"
KGMM S21 SPORT -
Front - 3.2kg/mm (179.2 lb/in)
Rear - 2.6kg/mm (145 lb/in)
KGMM S21 SUPERSPORT -
Front - 4.6kg/mm (257.6 lb/in)
Rear - 3.8kg/mm (212.8 lb/in)
KGMM DR Race -
Front - 6kg/mm
Rear - 5kg/mm
Ride Height - F: 2.2"
Ride Height - R: 1.2"
5ZIGEN R-RATE -
Front - 2.4 to 5.2kg/mm (134 to 291 lb/in) ~ drops 1.3"
Rear - 1.9 to 5.0kg/mm (106 to 280 lb/in) ~ drops 1.1"
KGMM S21 RACE -
Front - 6.6kg/mm (369.6 lb/in) ~drops ?"
Rear - 5.2kg/mm (291.2 lb/in) ~ drops ?"
Running shocks on any setting isn't going to shorten or lengthen life. However, what spring rates they're mated to is far more important.
KYB states in just about every warranty I can think of, that they are not good for a throw shorter than 1.5", which is where the warranty if voided. As for them being good with stiffer rates, I have to disagree.
KYB AGX = OEM replacement shock for slightly stiffer and very slightly shorter springs, and is adjustable.
This means that if you're going the shock/spring route, you should buy better shocks. These are not top quality "sport" shocks by any means.
KYB states in just about every warranty I can think of, that they are not good for a throw shorter than 1.5", which is where the warranty if voided. As for them being good with stiffer rates, I have to disagree.
KYB AGX = OEM replacement shock for slightly stiffer and very slightly shorter springs, and is adjustable.
This means that if you're going the shock/spring route, you should buy better shocks. These are not top quality "sport" shocks by any means.
Thanks for the reply.
I've decided to go with AGX and Tein S-Techs as well. My stock 14 year old suspension feels totally shot. For my daily-driven S13 I want the initial softness of progressive springs with a modest drop. I already have front and rear ST sway bars on, and will install ES TC-rod bushings when I put on the rest.
Here's my buy list for my S13:
-KYB AGX (full set $330 shipped from ebay)
-Tein S-Tech springs (~$144 shipped from ebay *looks authentic*) CHEAPER ELSEWHERE?
-1 pair eccentric camber bolts for front (~$25 Ingalls?) ($35 PDM?)
-KYB rubber strut boots (~$65 summitracing?) (jcwhitney has $20 generic plastic-looking ones)
Do I need anything else and can anyone find these cheaper? Help me spend my money! I shouldn't need to replace my front top strut mounts, right? I haven't inspected my front LCA's but PDM has 2 for $100 on sale now.
Also, how much should a decent alignment run me, so I don't get high-balled? Thanks!!
I've decided to go with AGX and Tein S-Techs as well. My stock 14 year old suspension feels totally shot. For my daily-driven S13 I want the initial softness of progressive springs with a modest drop. I already have front and rear ST sway bars on, and will install ES TC-rod bushings when I put on the rest.
Here's my buy list for my S13:
-KYB AGX (full set $330 shipped from ebay)
-Tein S-Tech springs (~$144 shipped from ebay *looks authentic*) CHEAPER ELSEWHERE?
-1 pair eccentric camber bolts for front (~$25 Ingalls?) ($35 PDM?)
-KYB rubber strut boots (~$65 summitracing?) (jcwhitney has $20 generic plastic-looking ones)
Do I need anything else and can anyone find these cheaper? Help me spend my money! I shouldn't need to replace my front top strut mounts, right? I haven't inspected my front LCA's but PDM has 2 for $100 on sale now.
Also, how much should a decent alignment run me, so I don't get high-balled? Thanks!!
Don't buy eccentric camber bolts. Unless they're designed in some way I can't think of for MacPherson strut suspension (highly unlikely), they're probably smaller than stock bolts for the mounting area of the shock/front spindle....which aren't safe at all. Stock bolts are fine.
You camber won't be anything to worry about anyway up front anyway. The rear however, can be adjusted if its too much...however, as I've stated before, the rear upper control arms are only adjustable from -1* to +1*.
Alignment vary. I paid $110 to have my old S13 aligned with me sitting it in, but I had all adjustable arms and coilovers and was fairly low...so it took the mechanics a while to get everything done to my specs. Most places in my area (keep in mind AL is a pretty cheap place to live) charge $60ish for a regular alignment though.
You camber won't be anything to worry about anyway up front anyway. The rear however, can be adjusted if its too much...however, as I've stated before, the rear upper control arms are only adjustable from -1* to +1*.
Alignment vary. I paid $110 to have my old S13 aligned with me sitting it in, but I had all adjustable arms and coilovers and was fairly low...so it took the mechanics a while to get everything done to my specs. Most places in my area (keep in mind AL is a pretty cheap place to live) charge $60ish for a regular alignment though.
Hey! I just came across some very high-level information on the topic of "the effect of spring rates on shock wear".
check it: http://my.is/forums/f89/analysis-shock-travel-stiffer-springs-330366/
my conclusion: Stiffer spring rates (ignoring dampening) DOES indeed make the shocks work more (and therefore cause more shock wear) on any given bump (or road imperfection) relative to the same shock with a softer spring on that same bump.
ps: a quote from that thread regarding shocks + springs which is fairly common knowledge but here it's made very clear:
"Shocks are speed dependent. Springs are displacement dependent. The general behaviour is...
- shocks dominate for fast bump/rebound like road roughness.
- springs dominate for slow bump/rebound like cornering or braking."
check it: http://my.is/forums/f89/analysis-shock-travel-stiffer-springs-330366/
my conclusion: Stiffer spring rates (ignoring dampening) DOES indeed make the shocks work more (and therefore cause more shock wear) on any given bump (or road imperfection) relative to the same shock with a softer spring on that same bump.
ps: a quote from that thread regarding shocks + springs which is fairly common knowledge but here it's made very clear:
"Shocks are speed dependent. Springs are displacement dependent. The general behaviour is...
- shocks dominate for fast bump/rebound like road roughness.
- springs dominate for slow bump/rebound like cornering or braking."
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