S13 stiffest shocks?

MX500 · Oct 1, 2008

I'm thinking about getting new shocks for my '90 hatch, or I may save up for coilovers if there are no REALLY stiff shocks available. I currently have a set of tokico blues and tein springs and the ride is WAY too soft for my driving style. I used to have a Tanabe sustec pro set of coilovers on my previous 240 and it handled great (better than any new STI or EVO might I add) but it hurt my (damaged) back a bit on long rides.

I use the car like every corner is on a race track (IE, don't use brakes before corners since there is no cornering speed limit.) I also drive on VERY rough roads and is is not acceptable for my car to bottom out at all. My current suspension is so soft that my tires slam into my fender liners (up front) and are starting to get to my wiring harness.

So...

Tokico blues (again?)
KYB GR-2?
KYB AGX?
Coilovers ? (insert brand and model in your post)

MX500 · Oct 1, 2008

Keep in mind, I'm broke and will only have ~$300 to spend this friday, I can save for a while but would prefer to either get shocks or some 225/50-125 tires with this check.

eomund · Oct 1, 2008

Well, the problem is the 'Stiffest' shock won't give you good handling, but will be upset easily and send you into unpredictable slides. For what you're going for, I'd say coilovers. Depending on what you go with, you get control over your ride hieght as well as the stiffness of the dampers.

Take a look at Megans:
Megan Racing Coilovers - Street Series - Import DPS - Your Reliable Performance Parts Center and Doctor Mecanico Supplier
Megan Racing Coilovers - Track Series - Import DPS - Your Reliable Performance Parts Center and Doctor Mecanico Supplier
Oh, contact importdps (he's a vendor on here) if you're interested. I'm sure he could work something out with ya.

They have both a street and track setup. The difference is the street setup is running a slightly lower spring rate than the tracks. If the roads are as rough as you say, I recommend not going with the worlds stiffest setting, but actually raising the car slightly.

MX500 · Oct 1, 2008

You're right on the money eomund. I had my tanabe's raised as high as possible and I never bottomed them out. Not even after catching an honest 1 foot+ of air.

I was also thinking about the godspeed coilovers as I have read they are made by the same manufacturer as megan racing.

eomund · Oct 1, 2008

The reason why I suggest the Megans is value per money. They're a little cheaper than most of the other brands, and if you PM importdps he might be able to get you a deal.

Scoot · Oct 2, 2008

MX500 said:
You're right on the money eomund. I had my tanabe's raised as high as possible and I never bottomed them out. Not even after catching an honest 1 foot+ of air.

I was also thinking about the godspeed coilovers as I have read they are made by the same manufacturer as megan racing.

Thats also what they said about Apex'I and Megan, wouldnt trust that statement, For Struts the stiffest you can get w/o going to a full race app is Koni Yellows

pretty much any coil set on full stiff should eb more then enough

I've heard alot of good about the Tanabe Seven's.....

college · Oct 6, 2008

im still new to the 240 world so i dont know what reacts well w what yet. but in the past w different cars i have had luck w ground control and koni yellows... in honda hatch's for racing, gave me a stupid ride.(stupid in a good way) haha but idk w these 240's

mikethebiker · Oct 6, 2008

k-sports can be had for less than megans, and they work great

raen419 · Oct 6, 2008

Rule 1. There is no such thing as a stiff shock.
Shocks are valved and adjustable for specific rates.
Rule 2. There is no point in upgrading shocks w/o upgrading springs w/ rates that are in the range of the shock valving and adjustment (if they're adjustable)
Rule 3. MR coilovers suck. Godspeed coilovers suck. Cheaping out on coilovers = stupid idea.
Rule 4. Keep saving.

Oh, and Koni Yellow is your best bet. That or Bilstein HD (not sure if they're made for S13/S14) which aren't adjustable....but that just means you need to pick your spring rates wisely.

Scoot · Oct 6, 2008

Next step under those Koni's are the Tokico D-Spec's which are S14 Specific only though.....

Then you have the KYB AGX's which are known to us as Adj. stock Struts....

raen419 · Oct 6, 2008

True. But KYB AGX suck. I have them on the Miata. Useless stuff. Should've gone w/ Tokico Illuminas....

gigatron · Nov 13, 2008

Guys, what's wrong with you? "Stiff" is bad. You want a RIGID STRONG STIFF chassis... but the point of 'shock absorbers' is to guess what.. absorb shocks... 'dampers' they 'dampen' the unsettled car over bumps.

Most "JDM" dampers are too stiff, too high rates. Doesn't matter the springrates if you have the right dampening and quality dampers.

AGX sucks ass.

All the 'jdm'; chinese pick your color coilovers suck.

I run koni 8611s, with nearly 11kg/mm front rates my car is comfortable... try that with pos chinesee 'jdm' coilovers.

Get koni yellows for HANDLING and GRIP and RESPONSIVNESS. COMFORT even....

Why don't you just weld the uprights directly to the chassis LOL... if you want that get D2 coilovers. They feel like your wheels are welded to the chassis. piece of garbage.

MX500 · Nov 14, 2008

raen419 said:
Rule 1. There is no such thing as a stiff shock.
Shocks are valved and adjustable for specific rates.

Yes, there are stiff shocks. OEm shocks are soft and slushy and horrible. I want shocks with stiffer valving. What word would you use for "firmer" shock absorbers?

Gigatron, stiff is good. I've been a motocross fanatic for nearly a decade, I know suspension. I am very experienced regarding suspension valving adjustments and spring rates for the given purpose. Stiff may be bad for some people, but when you are bombing around a corner at 75+ mph that has potholes and large bumps, the suspension does not feel stiff at all. At my driving speeds, my old tanabe sustec pro suspension felt plenty smooth and comfortable, it just had too much rebound dampening.

I've heard nothing but great reviews about koni shocks, but they are not available for the S13. i've googled them many times and had zero success. I believe they are discontinued (I read that).

Anywhere you can find Koni Yellows? Please PM me a link.

Scoot · Nov 14, 2008

Import Horizon Your Source Koni Yellow Sport Shocks and Struts for Hondas, Acura, Toyotas, Audi and Subaru

One of the few places that are cheap and good, bought my Yellow's from them and they shipped to my door (hawaii) from Monday was on my door step on Thurs...

Good company to buy from IMO

I would also pair those Yellow's w/ RS-R Springs unless your gonna go w/ a Ground Control set-up???
I suggested the RS-R Race Springs cause there Spring rates are pretty balanced for Street and Track driving.
Spring rates are 5.0kg/4.5kg it's soft but because the spring rates are close to each other (front/rear) it will give you better turn in and reduce the S13's understeer, though I'm sure you know that...

If not I would also look into the RS-R Coils...

my240sux · Nov 14, 2008

I have the Koni Yellow/RS-R race spring setup and I would say it's a great setup for daily driving and rough roads. The springs are stiff enough to keep you off the bump stops and the shocks are great. Although, in hindsight, I wish I would have gotten the Ground Control coilovers to get a slightly stiffer spring.

raen419 · Nov 14, 2008

MX500 said:
Yes, there are stiff shocks. OEm shocks are soft and slushy and horrible. I want shocks with stiffer valving. What word would you use for "firmer" shock absorbers?

I've heard nothing but great reviews about koni shocks, but they are not available for the S13. i've googled them many times and had zero success. I believe they are discontinued (I read that).

Anywhere you can find Koni Yellows? Please PM me a link.

Are you really trying to argue w/ me about what a "stiff" shock is or isn't?

Stiff springs exist. Stiff shocks don't. Why? B/c the spring dictates how much the shock rod travels (until it bottoms out, obviously). Therefore how stiff the spring is matters, how 'stiff' the shocks is doesn't, in that respect.

I've heard nothing of Koni discontinuing the Sports (Yellows) for the S13, but then again, I don't waste my time w/ my S13 anymore....therefore I don't shop around for parts. I searched Ebay real quick and came up w/ this:
eBay Motors: KONI SPORT YELLOW SHOCKS SET 89-94 NISSAN 240SX (item 200251334164 end time Nov-30-08 19:31:54 PST)
Not the best price by any means, but shipping is free (like that matters).

The RS*R/Koni setup works well. I have a few friends that are still running around on that setup in their S14s, and have no complaints.

MX500 · Nov 15, 2008

Apparently you don't have as much experience with suspension as I do. A well dampened shock can keep a soft spring from bottoming out the shock, if you have no shocks, you are MUCH more likely to be bouncing off the bump stops. The shocks most definately play a part in how stiff the suspension feels. The spring rate dictates how much weight is required to compress the spring a given amount, shocks control the compression and rebound of the spring/shock.

If you have adjustable suspension on your motorcycle, turn it ALL THE WAY to the stiffest (or highest dampening if you must say so) setting and tell me it feels just as soft as before. It will be a shitload stiffer. Your shocks will stop the wheel from compressing the suspension as quickly and therefore make the suspension feel stiffer.

I'll give up now, we're arguing semantics, I hate that word and don't feel like looking up the proper spelling.

Thanks for the links guys! I've been unable to find the koni's until now.

MX500 · Nov 15, 2008

Btw, I wasn't trying to start a pissing match, just trying to show my point because I'm stubborn as hell. Thanks for the info raen.

raen419 · Nov 15, 2008

LOL
Its ok dude. I've got years and years of experience in working with suspension on numerous car, bikes, and a few FSAE 'carts'.
That being said, I somewhat agree with your post, but your wording is a bit odd, imo. Possibly b/c I too am stubborn as hell (imagine that...), but I'll add my part.

When you say a well dampened shock will prevent a soft spring from bottoming out, do you mean the spring bottoming out (i.e. hits full compression, and for a moment becomes nothing more than a dead coil spring) or the shock bottoming out?

Here's an example of properly working suspension (shocks/spring combos only):
I have a set of Bilstein shocks for an R pkg/93LE Miata sitting here. They're almost idential to Bilstein HDs offer for Miatas, but have shorter shock bodies and lower factory spring perh locations. The springs they came w/ from the factory were too soft for the valving, therefore giving a rough ride (note, not 'stiff'). However, when adding 400/300 lb/in rates front and rear, respectively, the shocks now work very well with the rates supplied, but now feel stiff, but not rough. Just a firm (but what some would call 'stiff' for lack of a better term) ride with digressive compression and rebound.
Now, on the flip side, a crappy shock like the KYB AGX, where rebound is adjusted 3x per click, where compression is adjusted 1x per click of the adjustment knob...the shock can be paired with the same spring rate setup as my Bilsteins, yet the ride feels very stiff, offers less than subpar ride quality, and the feels like you're riding on the springs and not much else.

So, all 3 setups setups (Bilstein w/ stock springs, Bilstein w/ 400/300, and AGX w/ 400/300) according to you would feel stiff. But in actuality, only one is actually what you call 'stiff' (b/c its firm, but not harsh or rough). The AGX w/ 400/300 and Bilstein w/ stock springs are crap.

Oh, and I when comparing bike and car suspension, its apples and oranges. They both work the same way, but car suspension compression/rebound on Rcomps vs. bike compression/droop on Rcomps behave very differently on a track (b/c of vehicular design, obviously).

I think it is semantics btw. And yes, I hate/love engineering too.

So going back to the original topic....
Are you looking for a lot mechanical grip out of your suspension or something stiffer for smoother/even surfaces? B/c that can narrow down your options VERY quickly.

MX500 · Nov 15, 2008

I meant to say that the shock/bumpstop or other mechanical suspension stop bottomed out. My car does not have bumpstops thanks to the previous owner, I believe the shock body is hitting itself internally when it bottoms out.

I'm looking for more grip. I really need to get a video of my daily commute to show you guys... The roads are rather harsh and usually empty which equates to a high rate of speed and regular bottoming of my too soft tokico shocks. The tires tend to follow the road surface, I just need much more compression dampening to keep from bottoming out my suspension.

I wish I could get two way adjustable shocks. Or are the bilsteins adjustable for both compression and rebound?

S13 stiffest shocks?

Stiffest shock available?

KYB AGX

KYB GR-2

Tokico (blue)

Coilovers (I'll let you pick the model)

Other

MX500

MX500

eomund

MX500

eomund

Scoot

college

mikethebiker

raen419

Scoot

raen419

gigatron

MX500

Scoot

my240sux

raen419

MX500

MX500

raen419

MX500

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