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Lucky13garage.

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Just a quick question.

Does the input shaft (?) for the oil pump HAVE to be installed with the motor at TDC? The pump runs constant with the crank right? So no matter where the shaft is mated into the crank it should still be fine? I am not sure if the pump runs at interveuls (SP?) with the crank or if it just runs constant and cant seem to find the information anywere. Any help would be greatly appreciated.... Thanks yall
 
Yes it has to be installed at TDC on the compression stroke. The oil pump drive gear drives the dizzy as well, so if your off a tooth or didn't install it at TDC your ignition timing will be off.
The pump will pump oil no matter how you put the shaft it.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Do have another question. Keep hearing people say it's impossible to get the pump in perfect... That you either get it one tooth retarded or one tooth advanced every time. The single's distributor only went in one way from what i was aware so how do you manage to NOT be able to line it up perfect if the block is set at TDC in the compression stroke and the dizzy is installed correctly. You also have to install the dizzy before the pump's shaft right? I just don't understand how so many people are messing this up and having to take everything back apart.
 
You put the pump/drive shaft in first then the dizzy. The tricky part is laying under the car (if you have a lift or the engine is on a stand you shouldn't have this problem) and trying to install the pump without spinning the drive gear can be quite difficult.
What I do is install the pump and only tighten down 2 bolt (just so the pump stays in place and the shaft doesn't spin) and check the drive gear position from the top. If its straight up and down, your good to go. If its pointing any other direction it spun while you where putting it in.
Usually people make the mistake of not setting it at dead on TDC so it appears to be off, installed it on the exhaust stroke, or just don't know what they're doing.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Another question... Figured i would just use this page seems as how it's still open.

Im still doing the ignition timing but my plugs are either cross threaded or just in the head way way too much because they don't want to come out and im not going to force them.

I just finished putting everything back together from replacing the tensioner and guides in my single cam KA and i need to set the cylinder at TDC on the compression stroke but i can't remove the plug and the oil pan is already all bolted back up and i really dont want to remove it again (doing it with the motor in the car). My queastion is...

Is there a good way to watch the lifters to get the #1 cylinder at TDC? Possibly just listen for the compression and set it that way?
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Is it alright to just set the crank pully at TDC (Use the marks) and just listen to the compression to set it in the compression stroke? The compression stroke is before the compression releases right?

Im going crazy guy's! This thing is almost done and i can get it to turn over but the ignition timing is stupid so it runs like complete shit! It's raining HARD out right now too! I want to drive my car!!!!
 
With the valve cover off, set it at TDC on the crank pulley (second mark from the left, it should be red) and look at the cam pin. If its pointing up your good to go for the oil pump install, if its pointing down spin the engine 360* until the pin is facing up and the crank pulley is on the red mark.
Install oil pump and if the half moon is straight up and down, your good to go.
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
I was thinking you have to set the oil pump to 15*... I went and confused myself.. That's just the ignition timing itself.

So the half moon on the oil pump shaft it supposed to be facing up, as the top half of the curveture is pointing tword's the sky?
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
The motor wont even start when set up that way. It bubbles and want's t obackfire.... After installing the pump with the half moon facing up, and then installing the dizzy, the rotor on the dizzy was at about 7-8 o'clock. It is supposed to sit at 5 o'clock right?

I appreciate all the help man... For some reason there isn't much out there about the ignition timing on the single. Most of what i found was from you repling to other members on this site... Haha...
 
Did the half moon sit vertical or horizontal? It should look like this " D " only facing the other direction when looking down through the timing cover. If its at TDC and pointing at 7-8 o'clock, then your drive gear is retarded a couple teeth.
So go out and set it at TDC on the compression stroke (cam pin at 12 o'clock). Remove the dizzy and see where the half moon is pointing.
If it inst a backward " D " then your going to have to re-install the oil pump/drive gear.
Silly question but you are aligning the pump and drive gear on the correct dots right?
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
The curved part of the drive gear that inserts into the dizzy was facing north... Stright up, twords the head. So i did it wrong. I tried setting it at TDC on the compression stroke and putting the pump in with the dizzy at 5 o clock but it didn't seem to work, but that's what i have been reading (And you say so, and i belive you 200 percent seeing as how most of the information i come across in doing this is from you on this forum, haha). I will give it another go tommarow... Gotta work real early in the morning. It would start when the dizzy was around the 5 o clock mark, but would run like total shit and would stall out in seconds. I figure it's just because the dizzy isn't set right though... I may have had it slightly retarded or advaced as well. So the tip of the gear that inserts into the dizzy should pretty much be a backwards "D"? I think i've got it figured out but no harm in asking.

My initial timing is great.... Lines up at TDC on the crank pullly and the cam lines up with it. Now, every once in a while it wont line up right and i have to rotate the engine a bit and then it will line up fine... But that's normal right?

And yes, i am alighning the pump and gear right... I Belive. There is a little notch in the pump and a little hole, preferation looking dot on the gear. That is how i have been lining that up. I read somewere (Can't remeber where) that it's the right way to do it... But not being a vetern with this thing im not positive.

And just for a little more referance, the car did run great before i tore into it... Just that guide was missing and it was tearing into the water jacket. Also, random question that poped into my head. The motor has to be warm, or at least have a bit of pressure in it in order to blurp the bubbles out of the cooling system right? That could be half of why it run's like shit at start up.
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
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I belive im not installing it on the compression stroke but i have tried several times now on what seems to be the compression stroke and still no luck. I did manage to get it to fire with the above set up, but it stalled out in 2 seconds. Im starting to smell gas cranking it over so im going to clean it up a bit and give it another shot.

To my knowledge if im installing the pump and dizzy 1 tooth advanced or retarded it will still run, and wont run like TOTAL shit, but wont be top knotch. Also, when i timed the motor before (About a month ago) it was right dead on 15*, and i would assume assembling everything right would put it back at 15*... (I marked the dizzy before un-installation)

EDIT: Ignore the RTV all over the cover. That top bolt on the cover that holds it to the head was stripped so i am just being safe.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
I already know the answer to this problem but someone please tell me im wrong!

Is it possible to bend vavle's just fucking with the ignition timing?

It run's now... But has a horrible sound like lifter tick... I have heard that all too much before... But then it started making a horrid sound and i cut the engine. Im going to go watch a movie and calm down a bit and come back to mess with it. I just wanted someone to prove me wrong. That horrid sound almost sounded like pinging but i cut it too fast to tell.
 
I am having same issue on a oil pump timing
I have it at TDC on crank. I have it on TDC on oil pump and when I install it it is almost straight up and down with the narrower side on the left . The dizzy when in is point at cylinder one fire plug however its not running right so obit an issue . I was told that the pin as you look down the dizzy hole should be like 15 deg anti clockwise so not up and down so what's the accurate awnser there
 
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