Hey guys. finally got my redtop running pretty good. have about 650 miles on it so far since my rebuild. There is a drift event at the end of this month near me and im dying to go. how many miles do you guys recommend i wait till i can beat on the engine?
Engine break in... How long should i wait?
WakingDream
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Hey guys. finally got my redtop running pretty good. have about 650 miles on it so far since my rebuild. There is a drift event at the end of this month near me and im dying to go. how many miles do you guys recommend i wait till i can beat on the engine?
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This is a big debate. I've seen a guy take a create motor and go through a brake-in period. Then take another create (same set up and all) and push it balls out. The balls out pulls harder and has a harder pull then the other. Now rather the life span differs I don't know. I run mine balls out. If it's gonna blow it will be then. Now if it's my DD I'd take the time to break it in somewhat.
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well i have a redtop sr20det. i had it torn down and had new rings and bearings installed (ACL race bearings). i installed a metal head gasket and arp head studs. original pistons, rods, crank, and all stock top end minus cam cap studs (god i love those things) and RAS. Im running castrol gtx 10w-40 atm. Thanks for responding boostin. you always know your stuff ^^. my dad used to be a semi pro drag racer and hes slammed motors together and took them right to the track and ran them. this car is my DD till i get enough money for an s2k as a DD so i dont want to hurt the engine because i REALLY wanted to go drifting....
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OH also, would it be safe to run aftermarket springs and retainers with stock valves and stock cams?? so i can have stock cam profile but with high rpm reliablility.
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I can refer you to the link from a very reputable builder in Japan... These engines are NOT like oldskool ford/chevy motors where the cams, journals, rockers etc need to wear in- modern machining and much more precise measurements & exact tolerances have saved us from that. Best advice is to put the engine together per the fsm torque specs and drive it hard for a couple hrs right out of the trap... This ensures mostly that the piston rings seat properly... But other than that, there is no "break-in" and as far as I am concerned there is NO debate. If you like, I can refer you to a couple very detailed posts from the builder I mewntioned. Drive hard for a couple hrs, change oil, go drift=)
Also, metal head gasket = mistake. Metal doesn't compress like the stock HG, so unless the head/deck are polished to near-glass finish, there will be imperfections and areas that do not seal... To include the area across the deck and where the front cover line up... There is a minor difference in height there, and 9 times out of 10, metal HG leaks start there due to this weakness near the #1 cyl. I have a great link for this as well: SR20's and MLS head gaskets... - DriftSTL Forums
Stock HG and ARP studs is the way to go... Also, ACL race bearings are great if you tear your motor down every so often, but for longevity, OEM Nissan bearings are the way to go...
Aftermarket springs/retainers will not give you higher RPM reliability... per se... What you need for this in my opinion are rocker arm stoppers. Your stock valve springs w/stock cams are the best option for that setup. Best time to think about springs is when you start exploring more aggressive cams where there is a higher lift/duration demand on them. OEM springs/retainers can endure a stock cam profile all day long; regardless of rpms (within reason of course). Where you will run into trouble is with your lifters... The hydraulic lifters compress/decompress as the cam contacts the rocker. What happens at higher rpms over time is the lifters can no longer keep up with the speed of the cam/rocker causing the rocker to "float"... which is VERY bad because the rocker arm becomes free to move about the valve train lol... Rocker arm stoppers hold the rocker in place even when it unseats from the lifter... Very good insurance and excellent bang for very little buck (about $70 a set).
Hope this helped=)
--Mike
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well i DO have rocker arm stoppers from circuit sports. i got a metal gasket cuz i blew the stock hg and didnt want to worry about blowing another one pretty much ever again. im not taking the engine past 7k rpm. also as i said i overheated this engine once due to a coolant hose going to the IAC valve burst. my car blows a good bit of blue smoke kinda randomly. alot of times under decel. ive had my head gone completely gone through. could it be a fucked up ring from being overheated??
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lol@ the metal gasket and never blowing an hg again
Decel is usually valve seals although that could be oil seals on the turbo. You could always do a compression test if you are worried about rings.
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well i wasnt saying metal HG NEVER blow, i had just blown a stock one already so i figured id upgrade it and have less problems... and ive had the turbo off since its been blowing smoke and there wasnt any oil in the o2 pipe and down pipe.... im hoping its not valves seals. im REALLY tired of pulling the head off my car and taking it to the machine shop XD
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I feel ya... But if it DOES have to come off, might I suggest OEM Nissan valve seals and HG
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Metal head gasket a mistake? False information. While your head is off, have it clearanced by the machine shop. Clean the deck the best you can since your block is obviously in the car. Engine builders have used mls head gaskets in every set up imaginable. Just because it CAN leak, doesn't mean it will if it's done in proper manner. You don't necessarily need a mls head gasket unless your pushing higher boost numbers or beating on your car for longer periods of time. But it is not at all a mistake to use one. I used the same procedure I shared above and had no issues. Some use copper spray as extra precaution against leaks. Mine has held up fine without it. I do, however, agree with Mikester on engine break in. Break it in the same as you plan to run it. If your going to drift it, give it hell right out of the box after a good "run in" and oil change to remove the metal shavings that are produced after a first start.
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I also read the thread Mikester posted a link to. You use rtv around the front section of any metal head gasket on a sr20. I thought that was common knowledge. That is a no pressure area where oil flows obviously. The cylinder rings in the head gasket wont allow that difference to cause a leak in compression. They have been known to "weep" oil where the head meets the oil pump cover, but that would be due to insufficient application of the rtv.
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Mistake may not have been the right choice of words... Metal HG are not the worst thing you can do, they just don't seal as well overall as OEM... period. And BTW OEM still has the metal rings around the combustion chamber.
The proper way to compensate for the disparity between the deck near the #1 cyl and the front cover is not to add extra RTV, it's to either use the more conforming OEM gasket or machine it out... And that thread I posted isn't some kid off the street- he is a very reputable builder in Japan who has been building extreme SR's & RB's since the early 90's. The guy knows his stuff.
Also, the oil change after the first run on an SR is not to remove metal shavings, it's to verify that there are none. Again, these arent like old V8's where parts physically wear into one another and create metal shavings... If you find metal shavings in your oil after an SR rebuild, you are in deep trouble.
Not trying to be argumentative or disrespectful dude... I ran a Cometic MLS HG at 1.5bar (22psi) for drag run after drag run every weekend for a few months in Okinawa before I shipped everything home... beat the shit out of it actually lol... I did NOT machine out the front cover, nor did I use ARP studs at the time; as a matter of fact, I re-used the stock head bolts- and I had no issues. Be that as it may, the physics involved with my choice to take MJR's advice are sound. MLS does not have the same amount of "give" as aluminum, which as we know the head/block are made of- and they do flex under loads. OEM gasket will flex with them and not come unsealed, shift etc all day long... The RTV is there not to create an extra seal per se, it is to help keep the gasket in place during torquing, and MAYBE to serve as a last line of defense when the gasket is on its way out. Of course the RTV around the front cover is a different story=)
The proper way to compensate for the disparity between the deck near the #1 cyl and the front cover is not to add extra RTV, it's to either use the more conforming OEM gasket or machine it out... And that thread I posted isn't some kid off the street- he is a very reputable builder in Japan who has been building extreme SR's & RB's since the early 90's. The guy knows his stuff.
Also, the oil change after the first run on an SR is not to remove metal shavings, it's to verify that there are none. Again, these arent like old V8's where parts physically wear into one another and create metal shavings... If you find metal shavings in your oil after an SR rebuild, you are in deep trouble.
Not trying to be argumentative or disrespectful dude... I ran a Cometic MLS HG at 1.5bar (22psi) for drag run after drag run every weekend for a few months in Okinawa before I shipped everything home... beat the shit out of it actually lol... I did NOT machine out the front cover, nor did I use ARP studs at the time; as a matter of fact, I re-used the stock head bolts- and I had no issues. Be that as it may, the physics involved with my choice to take MJR's advice are sound. MLS does not have the same amount of "give" as aluminum, which as we know the head/block are made of- and they do flex under loads. OEM gasket will flex with them and not come unsealed, shift etc all day long... The RTV is there not to create an extra seal per se, it is to help keep the gasket in place during torquing, and MAYBE to serve as a last line of defense when the gasket is on its way out. Of course the RTV around the front cover is a different story=)
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ok thanks for the info guys. im just worried about the smoke. i HOPE its a valve seal and not a ring.... im gonna leak test my engine soon.
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If you did a fresh rebuild and didn't change out your valve seals, it very well could be that. Also, under decel, your PCV valve is wide-open... Could just be sucking additional oil vapor into the combustion chamber form there. I run catch cans on both sides of my motor for just that reason.
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well i did a fresh rebuild and replaced all the valves seals and all that but then my engine overheated and blew the stock head gasket. replaced hg and put in arp studs. i ended up having some probs and bent every valve in the head so bought another head from a shop near me. took it to the machine shop that did my rebuild and he found one bent valve and replaced it so i think all the seals ARE used, but i do believe the car was smoking with the other head....
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ill try to get so video of the smoke so you guys can see exactly what im talking about
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would a lack of catch can make me blow smoke? i have my "pcv" valve running to my intake mani, the block vent goes up to the T in the valve cover( i removed my egr) and on the other side of the T i have a little breather.
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Have you tried cleaning or replacing your PCV valve? Could be hanging open...
A catch can on that side of the motor is a good idea, and can stop the car from smoking, but it may not solve the problem, just hide it.
Filter on the T fitting = bad idea. Eventually, it will become saturated with oil and drip onto your exhaust mani... Fire hazard. Recommend catch can there too... Or a full crossflow catch can setup.
Either way, under normal conditions, smoke under decel still could be valve seals and/or blow-by (rings). Hopefully cleaning your PCV will solve it... Takes about 10min=)
A catch can on that side of the motor is a good idea, and can stop the car from smoking, but it may not solve the problem, just hide it.
Filter on the T fitting = bad idea. Eventually, it will become saturated with oil and drip onto your exhaust mani... Fire hazard. Recommend catch can there too... Or a full crossflow catch can setup.
Either way, under normal conditions, smoke under decel still could be valve seals and/or blow-by (rings). Hopefully cleaning your PCV will solve it... Takes about 10min=)
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