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zoom8112

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
how much HP can i push from a NA ka24de with I/H/E and a jim wolf ECU ???? RWHP?? wheels and crank

how are jim wolf ecu's?? i dont see much talk about them here, nor zilvia, nor FA, nor NICO

also, what are the big deal about 91' cams?? i see alot of talk about these ...

also, what exactly does an engine rebuild entail?? (turbo prep)

what are some good websites regarding this? what about parts? etc ...

TIA
 
#2 ·
1rst- not much power at all, KA does not see good results N/A.

2nd- jwt ecu's do not give good enough results N/A, have jwt tune it with a turbo set up and see much better results.

3rd- 91 cams were just a bit more aggressive, few extra HP but no big deal.

4th- Usually consist of gaskets, bolts, few parts here and there. When I think rebuild I think overhaul.........

5th- you really need to search on all these questions cause they have been covered over and over again, lol.

Robbie
 
#3 ·
the ka can put down nice power, i just got a jwt ecu used, new they are around $600, the guy that owned it before me said it made like 8 whp.
i have done the same mods as the pdm s13 and a aluminum flywheel and some very mild porting, the pdm car puts down 166...old number, i think the new number is 163? the ecu suposedly can add up to 10% and it just the basic pop charger upgrade. so with all the extra mods i have i may see more power, i will be dynoing in spring before my complete rebuild.....i gotthe ecu because i got a good deal on it and i can get a retune later when i go ka-t. if you look online i found a guy i dont remember what his site was but he made 12hp at the wheels with a jwt ecu that was tuned for exhaust/header and intake. i have heard that the "91" cams, ( i think are present in 92's also) give 5 to 6 hp, and the better set up to run is dual exhaust cams but you need to have one repinned for use in the intake side. the dual exhaust cams is a debated matter as some people lost power from it. the exhaust cam is a 248 duration, and the intake i for get what it was if its 240 or 242?? im sure someone else knows......i belive with quite a bit of money you can get to 200 whp, im hopefully going to be 170 and after the rebuild i m hopeing to still be 170, (im rebuilding to a 9:1 comp ratio) so hopefully i dont loose any power, i doubt i will do to how much smoke i have from trashed rings,(when i got pdm cams i ahd the head rebuilt) i saw the shape of my cylinders but at the time i couldnt afford a complete rebuild. i ve got about 1350 into my motor right now.

Evil98silvia said:
1rst- not much power at all, KA does not see good results N/A.

2nd- jwt ecu's do not give good enough results N/A, have jwt tune it with a turbo set up and see much better results.

3rd- 91 cams were just a bit more aggressive, few extra HP but no big deal.

4th- Usually consist of gaskets, bolts, few parts here and there. When I think rebuild I think overhaul.........

5th- you really need to search on all these questions cause they have been covered over and over again, lol.

Robbie
Click to expand...
 
#4 ·
200whp is near impossible on a daily driver na KA...

just to clear that up i've seen a lot of people set that as their goal lately.

ryans13: you do realize that rebuilding to a 9:1 comp ratio would be no improvement right? the stock ratio is 9.2:1 according to the fsm. How exactly do you plan to rebuild to this ratio...you would need to replace some internals, not just rebuild.
 
#5 ·
I noticed it got more popular after I posted a few 200hp NA intructions. Ryan.... I know the KA CAN make good power n/a, but is it really worth it? If you look at the stroke of the KA motor......its not exactly the best high end n/a motor. If I wanted a good n/a motor I would go honda personally. But no doubt about it with much money spent and less reliability you can have a 200hp na ka.

Robbie
 
#6 · (Edited)
200 whp is no big deal. 10.5:1 pistons, cam and ported head. the head would be ~1000 bucks with the cam assembled with solid lifter, mild valve and port job, and the pistons would be ~700. If you can do the labor yourself that's excellent. oo ya i forgot about all the hidden costs. Injectors, ECU..clutch....and maybe some others
 
#7 ·
im in the midst of tunning my DE N/A. It has the jim wolf ecu, port and polish, 11.1.:1 CR, pdm cams, intake, headers, exhaust, and elec. fan. I did a swap from the E motor. I have a couple of grand into it because of all the conversion parts. I havent gotten her out on the road yet but im guessing i have close to 200 hp. maybe someday ill take it to the dyno.
 
#8 ·
Nice SilverNA, and smellface 200whp is a big deal lol. Its kinda like getting a Deisle to be a high end torqueless motor. But some have done it on the KA, alot fail lol but some do a good job. Goodluck silver.

Robbie
 
#12 ·
Stories, lol. Its more of common sense. But alot of guys try to build this, some succeed going over their budget and turns out its not that reliable. You can port the head to a certain extent but the design of it still wont allow you to reach the range that lets say.....a honda head would bring you to. Most stroker kits for other motors still wont bring you to what we have. And I havnt met anyone yet who wants to STROKE their motors for a n/a setup lol. But most guys with intake, headers, exhaust, cams, LW flywheel, timing and tuning are still only bringin in maybe 170 to the wheels MAYBE. And get it ported yes......add some more aggresive cams and now you have a lumpy idle not very streetable n/a motor.... Its possible, would be cool but not worth it IMO. Personal preferance though.

Robbie
 
#13 ·
I've put more money than I care to admit into my na DE.. But damn am I proud of it. I've never seen another engine like mine, and probably won't...

My mods: SOHC pistons (2.5mm overbore) stepped down .030" (11:1 CR), port/polished head, Colt stage II cams, JWT ECU, S-AFC, 370cc SR injectors, RB20 MAF sensor, UR underdrive pulley, Centerforce DF clutch, fidanza aluminum flywheel, custom short length intake, hotshot header, GReddy MX exhaust with resonator removed, PDM test pipe, dual electric fans, earthing wires, 300zxTT 255l/hr fuel pump, 300zx fuel filter, NGK cold range plugs, NGK wires. Might be stuff I am missing.

Many of these things have gone on over the winter and this car will not be leaving storage until the snow melts. It'll need some serious tuning hooked up to a wideband, but in the spring I hope to have an honest to god dyno printout showing over 200hp to the wheels.
 
#14 ·
ya i see your point. But lumpy idles own. What do you know about realnissan? anything about their reputation? Also remember than raising the compression to 10.5:1 would still be on pump gas safely and a lot of power increase, especially in single cam where i have 8.5:1 stock c/r. And i still dont get the reliability thing. What's the big deal? i'd assume a turbocharged engine would be less reliable if both were built to equal standards. Bare with me im a stubborn asshole but this is interesting

Realnissan.com pricing

Race block with racing rods and forged pistons, bored over with 10.5:1 compression. $1700 assembled

Race head with mild valve job, mild port job, racing cam, solid lifters, valve springs, titanium retainers etc... $1000 assembled

So now i'm at ~3000 bucks with shipping included. Ecu & injectors=$700. Clutch and flywheel=700

all other bullshit you may need $500

Now built to the same standards let's see a turbo setup
Same block and head with forged pistons except with 8.5:1 c/r $3000 shipped

A turbo kit pieced together with FMIC, manifold , piping, BOV , electronics, fuel pump, etc. $4000-$4500

clutch & flywheel $700

ECU & injectors $700

all other bullshit you may need $500
and let's not even get into tuning a turbo engine



My totals come to 4900 for the n/a motor parts
and 9400 for the turbo motor parts. obviously there will be a big power potential difference but not necessarily and actual power difference
i think this n/a setup can make over 200whp easily and the turbo setup can make god knows how much power but most ppl wont run over 250whp.

Now robbie i hope you're reading this so you can point out any mistakes in my planning and mention anything that i've overlooked. I'm asking for your advice here. Thank you
 
#16 ·
Rownan, thats a very nice setup you have there.

Smellface- 9400 for a turbo its crazy lol. There are guys spending 2500 peicing together a GOOD turbo kit, stock internals boosting to 15psi with putting down around 300whp. Personally I wouldnt boost that high but I see most are around 9-11psi and pushin 275hp or so on average. Really its ALL personal preferance.....Id like to have one of each myself.

Robbie
 
#17 ·
So heres my take on it, to start with 9400 for a turbo kit is nutz, i'm in the process of building a KAT and the grand total will be under 2g's all said and done. I'm looking to get a simple 200-225 hp and with the setup it really shouldnt be an issue, even on stock internals.

My guess as to the reason people go NA is when they 1st buy the car they want to upgrade but dont have the coin to throw even 1500 at it for a turbo, so they buy an intake, then later an exhaust , followed buy a header, then maybe pulleys etc. etc. People are impatient and want the power when they have the cash and NA allows you to build piece by piece, so you have something to show for your hard earned $$ along the way.

My argument against NA (in the KA) is lag, yes lag becasue you dont really get all the power till the higher RPMs. Where as with a small turbo setup you could hit full boost by 3000 rpms. people dont always realize that, they think turbo = lag, but its all in how you build it. Sorry for the long post.
 
#18 ·
That's the thing about building an all motor KA.. Or any all motor engine for that matter. You have to put all your money into the top end if you want horsepower. Often this means robbing you of any power below 3500rpms. But the steep incline at 4000rpms makes it worth it. Especially since the gearing in the 240sx drops you right back into that range once you pass redline. FYI my KA above makes power all the way up to 7 grand, it's no high revving beast but it's fun to pass people as the needle passes 6500rpms. Also the power is always there, a point that makes itself plainly apparent if you autocross regularly. I attend numerous autox events throughout the summer, and often find myself getting consistently better times than many 300+ hp turbo cars.. Of course that could be attributed to the 240s PERFECT chassis layout, right..? :)

Anyway, this thread seems to have turned into an all motor vs turbo argument, and as everyone knows they each have their benefits but I don't think it's fair to compare the two as far as performance goes. We won't get anywhere with this discussion. Everyone has their opinions, some are educated, some aren't. For instance, I see more skill in the setup I have above, rather than strapping a turbo on with a little bit of heat wrap and pushing it until the KA blows. I am not a critic of turbo setups, and in the future I will almost definitely end up tuning one. But this is the setup I have right now, and see promise in. Pioneering into the unknown. How many 200+whp all motor KAs have you seen? Sure my car only runs a 14 second quarter mile, but for someone like me who cares more about the work that has gone into a car rather than how fast it can get out of of the staging lanes, that's fine. And obviously the money that it takes to make a 200+hp na KA could certainly get you a 200+hp turbo KA, so I am not running this setup because it is all I can afford. I've actually had offers from people who want to buy my engine for enough money that I could probably pick up an SR20..

I love discussing the plusses and negatives of going all motor, I love explaining my theories and hearing other peoples. But everytime I come across an all motor KA discussion it turns into a 'why not go turbo' thread and I know that I am not the only one that gets flustered by it.....
 
#19 ·
Its not a turbo VS. n/a thread, lol. Like I said I would LOVE both. The original quesiton was how much HP he can push N/A. The ONLY reason I wouldnt put so much money into the KA for ME....not anyone else.... but the only reason "I" lol wouldnt is because the stroke. Like you said you get better performance at higher RPMS and it climbs........well that is limited big time because of the stroke. Its hard to have high end motor with a stroke that long. Again these are my reasons, I think your setup is beast and if I had the extra money id probably mess around with it also. But for me I have rent, car payments and bills so Ill continue workin on my turbo setup.

Robbie
 
#20 ·
Evil98silvia said:
Its not a turbo VS. n/a thread, lol. Like I said I would LOVE both. The original quesiton was how much HP he can push N/A. The ONLY reason I wouldnt put so much money into the KA for ME....not anyone else.... but the only reason "I" lol wouldnt is because the stroke. Like you said you get better performance at higher RPMS and it climbs........well that is limited big time because of the stroke. Its hard to have high end motor with a stroke that long. Again these are my reasons, I think your setup is beast and if I had the extra money id probably mess around with it also. But for me I have rent, car payments and bills so Ill continue workin on my turbo setup.

Robbie
Click to expand...
I hear ya. The stroke on a 2.4L 4 cylinder makes it limited.. On most races engines the point is simply to raise the redline, since rpm is a factor of overall horsepower. But on the KA it is difficult to go in that direction, since it is so mechanically limited by rotational forces...

Eh, they're nothing but hurdles. ;)
 
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