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#41 · (Edited)
InsanityInc said:
Wow, can you tell me where to get these magical pullies that add crank horsepower? Pullies only reduce drivetrain loss you moron, which is why they help quite a bit more as your car gains power. Also, I think that you could probably expect more than 20 crank horsepower out of i/h/e if you buy quality parts. There really is a big difference.
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Ok, 1st thing: As long as the aftermarket pullies weigh less than the stock pullies (which the should or they'd be useless in making power) they'll reduce the rotational mass of the pullies. That will reduce the amount of HP needed to turn the pullies which will free up or "add" some CHP that is no longer needed to turn the original heavier stock pullies. This will also reduce total drivetrain loss because there's less for the engine to spin.

2nd thing: Another way to get back some WHP from your car is to reduce the weight of the other rotating parts in your drivetrain like your flywheel, driveshaft, and wheels and tires. Doing a big brake upgrade is actually slightly detrimental to your HP because of the additional mass of the rotors, but the additional stopping power lets you brake later into a turn which helps if you're doing autox or something.

Edit: I just reread your post and how you said it doesn't add any CHP which it doesn't, it just frees it up. Either way I've written too much and forgot what my point was in the first place as I have no short term memory. :12dunno
 
#42 ·
InsanityInc said:
Wow, can you tell me where to get these magical pullies that add crank horsepower? Pullies only reduce drivetrain loss you moron, which is why they help quite a bit more as your car gains power. Also, I think that you could probably expect more than 20 crank horsepower out of i/h/e if you buy quality parts. There really is a big difference.
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hey ass fuck, i HAVE the pulley on my car and it DYNOED 3whp gain. it FREES UP horsepower that was already there idiot....and btw you don't "add" horsepower like this will give me 5 and this will give me 10 so i have 15 extra hp....it's actually percentages....once again you're showing your ignorance
 
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#44 · (Edited)
uno said:
hey ass fuck, i HAVE the pulley on my car and it DYNOED 3whp gain. it FREES UP horsepower that was already there idiot....and btw you don't "add" horsepower like this will give me 5 and this will give me 10 so i have 15 extra hp....it's actually percentages....once again you're showing your ignorance
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I think insanity was talking about crank horsepower, not wheel.

I would think that lightweight pulleys WOULD produce crank horsepower though, due to the fact that the crank would turn more freely due to the pulley's weight reduction.
 
#46 ·
InsanityInc said:
200 wheel horsepower isn't going to cost 5 grand, especially if you do the work yourself.

The best advice is to get quality parts, especially the bolt-on's. Get the K&N cone filter setup, it replaces your airbox which is the biggest killer of your airflow in the intake system. The hotshot headers are best from what I've heard, and get a high-end catback, or if you really want one right away without spending the 700-800 dollars for a high-end one, just get a muffler shop to put 2.25/2.5" straight pipe in on your stock muffler. Unorthodox pulley, the JWT and Viper ECU's are good from what I hear. You probably won't need a clutch until you start working on internals, but I guess if you're replacing the flywheel you may as well do the clutch. You'll put down about 160-170 at the wheels if you get all high-quality parts. You also might want to look into getting a custom intake manifold, or at least the one off of an s14, supposedly they made the intake manifold better in later years, but backed off the cams. You'll want to put new injectors in at that point.

Then your next step is to go to internals. 10.5:1 pistons and gapless rings, as well as JWT cams would be a good idea. The stock rods are forged, so those should be alright, but you'll want to replace the bearings. I don't think it would be too surprising to put down 200-220 at the wheels at that point.

Then you can get the head ported, replace the springs and any bad valves, I've also heard of people removing the butterfly valves. This is going to be the most expensive single upgrade, simply because you're probably going to have to pay a machine shop to do it.
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unfortunately diego, i don't think he meant chp, he really thinks the whp will go up this much
 
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#47 ·
uno said:
unfortunately diego, i don't think he meant chp, he really thinks the whp will go up this much
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Well, I wouldn't go as far to say that 200-220whp N/A is IMPOSSIBLE, but I will say that it's not cost efficient and will wear down the engine even more than a turbo will. Proper turbo installation on a KA engine and the engine will last at least I'd say about 90% of what it would have stock. I don't agree with Insanity one bit on the whole "N/A vs Turbo" opinion, and that is simply because KA's are built to love a turbocharger, and aren't an awesome pick to leave N/A if you want to see some serious numbers. I see where you are coming from, uno. :thumbsup
 
#48 ·
DiEGo said:
Well, I wouldn't go as far to say that 200-220whp N/A is IMPOSSIBLE, but I will say that it's not cost efficient and will wear down the engine even more than a turbo will. Proper turbo installation on a KA engine and the engine will last at least I'd say about 90% of what it would have stock. I don't agree with Insanity one bit on the whole "N/A vs Turbo" opinion, and that is simply because KA's are built to love a turbocharger, and aren't an awesome pick to leave N/A if you want to see some serious numbers. I see where you are coming from, uno. :thumbsup
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cool man.....i know 200whp isn't impossible but many have tried and failed....and he thinks he can make 300whp with reliablitiy...which i gave him a 1%chance of , i didn't rule him out completely....i wish there were 300hp na ka's that weren't carb'd and were streetable....but the harsh reality of it is, with current technology and parts, it looks like a far shot
 
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#51 ·
uno said:
hey ass fuck, i HAVE the pulley on my car and it DYNOED 3whp gain. it FREES UP horsepower that was already there idiot....and btw you don't "add" horsepower like this will give me 5 and this will give me 10 so i have 15 extra hp....it's actually percentages....once again you're showing your ignorance
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Yes, see, that would be reducing drivetrain loss. You gain horsepower at the wheels because less power needs to be used to turn your drivetrain. However, you said that you gained crank horsepower with it, then turned around and said you gained wheel horsepower with it. You will gain wheel horsepower, but not crank horsepower.

oh ya a far shot is an uderstatement. I don't know y this guy has such a thing against turbochargers. If anything, all the flaming being thrown at him would educate him a little, but it just doesn't seem to be.
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I'm not the one that claimed 300 wheel horsepower. You'd have to do some serious modifications to get 300 horsepower out of a KA24DE, most notably you'd probably have to increase the displacement a good amount.

unfortunately diego, i don't think he meant chp, he really thinks the whp will go up this much
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With a lightweight flywheel, an underdrive pulley, a good ECU, and quality i/h/e parts, you should put down at least 160 at the wheels. You do realize that the car puts about 130 or so at the wheels stock, right?

and btw you don't "add" horsepower like this will give me 5 and this will give me 10 so i have 15 extra hp....it's actually percentages....once again you're showing your ignorance
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Heh, it goes a bit deeper than percentages. Percentages or horsepower additions are both just a rough estimate of what an aftermarket part will give you. Also, the calculations for what kind of gains you will see differ completely on what part of the engine you're modifying. If you'd like to get into talking about the amount of extra horsepower supplied by an intake based on the ability of your aftermarket electronic control unit's ability to adapt your fuel flow to the increased air in order to maintain a good fuel-air ratio to ensure a complete burn, and thusly the amount of power (in kilojoules) that could be expected from each cylinder compared to the number of kilojoules supplied before the modifications, and then get into how your exhaust system handles the exhast to ensure that there are no remnants of the previous burn in your cylinder so that the next reaction can completely fully and unmolested by the unescaped exhaust gases, and the amount of power gained based on the more efficient unmolested combustion, and then convert it all to horsepower.

However, even though everyone obviously knows that it's not just as simple as adding 5 horsepower for something (well, I shouldn't say everyone..), it's kind of drawn out and tedious to talk about horsepower gains in more complete terms, wouldn't you agree?
 
#52 ·
agreed man...you stated your case well and i think so did i, so it's all good now...i think we were both just wording things differently and using different terminology...at least you don't freak out like some other people when it gets heated...i like that.... :thumbsup now start working on that n/a motor and show us :heyhey
 
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#54 · (Edited)
InsanityInc said:
Yes, see, that would be reducing drivetrain loss. You gain horsepower at the wheels because less power needs to be used to turn your drivetrain. However, you said that you gained crank horsepower with it, then turned around and said you gained wheel horsepower with it. You will gain wheel horsepower, but not crank horsepower.
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I know what you mean but technically he did "gain" crank horsepower in that an engine dyno would show gains at the crank. After all this is a crank pulley :) Now if he were to get lighter wheels or a more efficient transmission or differential, that might translate to more WHP but not more crank HP.

So to summarize:
You are correct in saying that the mod did not generate more HP, but in fact freed lost horsepower (in this case due to decreased load of the accessories by underdriving and less rotational inertia due to a smaller weight and diameter). However, I believe you are incorrect in your assertion that there is no gain at the crank. This is not a drivetrain issue as it is far upstream of the drivetrain. I think you both had valid points and should calm down :kissgrope

Also, not to be an asshat, but power is measured in watts, joules is the unit for work/energy.
InsanityInc said:
...your aftermarket electronic control unit's ability to adapt your fuel flow to the increased air in order to maintain a good fuel-air ratio to ensure a complete burn, and thusly the amount of power (in kilojoules) that could be expected from each cylinder compared to the number of kilojoules supplied before the modifications...
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#56 ·
so, whats the story with this N/A buildup? Did the guy ever put it together?

And why would anyone say that N/A horsepower is more "skilled" than turbo horsepower??? If you take a turbo car from the factory and turn up the boost: well, OK. That doesn't take a lot of skill.

But, if you take an N/A vehicle, and "bolt-on" a turbo, well, that takes a LOT of skill. You know you have to route oil lines, ensure proper cooling for the turbo unit, ensure the fuel system can handle the extra air you are pumping in, ensure the proper mixture of air/fuel, fabricate an entire exhaust system, fabricate an entirely new intake piping system include intercooler, etc etc. There is just TONS of work involved. In fact, I'll stand here and argue that adding a turbo to a previously N/A motor is MORE work than just upgrading parts already on the motor. The N/A buildup that was described seems more like "bolt-ons" than these "bolt-on" turbo kits. You have an exact map of where everything goes, because you have the current motor configuration in front of you. You just replace items as you come to them.

And, why in the WORLD is nitrous oxide injection still considered NATURALLY ASPIRATED??? Natrually aspirated means no forced induction, and nitrous oxide is a form of forced induction. So, if you are on the "juice", then you are not N/A.
 
#57 ·
Also, not to be an asshat, but power is measured in watts, joules is the unit for work/energy.
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Watts is a measure of electrical power as far as I know. Power isn't actually really a scientific term, it's all just energy over time. A fuel combustion reaction would be measured in kilojoules, since it'd just be the chemical reaction for gasoline and oxygen, which yields about 5586 kj/mol.
 
#60 ·
uno said:
i was once in your shoes, same boat, thought the same...but when you start the parts list, you'll see that 200whp n/a will cost more than 5 grand..and without nitrous, i think 300whp n/a has about a 1% chance of happening and then would never be streetable...
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Well you cant do it with parts that are on the market right now. Your motor would see alot of the machine shop. Just do all the same custom shit that they do to create 700 hp n/a V8s. But yeah, i know for sure it wont be streetable mainly because dome top pistons would raise your compression to like 14 and you cant run that with pump gas.
 
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