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Just been pondering about SR/KA

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#21 ·
1992droptop said:
I'm sorry, but this post is 226 words of pure misinformation. The SR20DET is not a newer engine. It was first used in 1991 S13 year models. The KA24DE (the KA24E was an almost completely different design) was not offered in any vehicle before 1991. And guess what that vehicle was...that's right. The 240SX. This engine wasn't offered in a truck until 1997. I don't need to do much with my KA to go fast either. I can turbo my KA24DE for less than half the cost of an SR. If I were to match the cost of the SR with money invested into a KA (including buying a new engine, which is ~$400), then I could make an easy 300 whp and nearly 350 lb-ft of torque. By the way, the KA24DE was designed, manufactured, and installed into every 240SX in Japan.
Click to expand...
im talking about some of the technoligies and engineering designs that went into both of them.

for example:
SR20DET has distributor-less ignition system with coil on plug which is found on newer style cars with newer technolgy even on this "older car model s13." also on the newer SR20DETs there is computer controlled cam timing/phasing

KA24DE has a distributor and parts in the valvetrain have some older mechanics, etc. (im not too sure on the exact details, i dont know all!)

also look at other things like head-flow design, block design (aluminum), engine speeds, transmissions, powerbands, turbocharging, etc.

Also the Nissan SILVIA is a performance sports car with a performance engine like the SR20DET.:gaylaugh
 
#22 ·
david86 said:
im talking about some of the technoligies and engineering designs that went into both of them.

for example:
SR20DET has distributor-less ignition system with coil on plug which is found on newer style cars with newer technolgy even on this "older car model s13." also on the newer SR20DETs there is computer controlled cam timing/phasing

KA24DE has a distributor and parts in the valvetrain have some older mechanics, etc. (im not too sure on the exact details, i dont know all!)

also look at other things like head-flow design, block design (aluminum), engine speeds, transmissions, powerbands, turbocharging, etc.

Also the Nissan SILVIA is a performance sports car with a performance engine like the SR20DET.:gaylaugh
Click to expand...
Last I checked, the KA head flows better than the SR head does. The weight difference between the KA (iron) and the SR (aluminum) is minimal. The KA block in and of itself is in fact quite a bit stronger than the SR block (to say nothing of internals). I would rather rely on block strength and stroke, and change my ignition system out down the road, than spend $2500 dollars or more for an engine whose history I know nothing of (other than what type of car it's from). For that $2500 you could get a fully built KA shortblock; or you could get a full turbo setup that will make somewhere in the range of 300-350 whp. If you add in the price of some upgrades on that SR (FMIC, Fuel, Turbo, Exhaust) you're looking at well over $4000 dollars. For that, I could have my full turbo setup and replace the stock KA rods with Crowers and still have money left over for some dyno runs and a great tune.

If you want to talk stock/stock, of course the SR is more powerful--it's turboed already! If you take the SR20DE and compare it to the KA24DE, you'll notice that the KA makes more power N/A. If you use the turbo components from an SR20DET on a KA (injectors, turbo, smic), you'll notice that the KA still makes more power at the stock psi. Why is it that your vastly superior and high tech SR doesn't match the KA on a level playing field (both turboed with the same components at the same psi)? Well, the KA has something your SR doesn't: .4 litres of displacement. Yes, it really does make a difference.

I will say that there is no replacement for displacement. If you make the same modifications to two engines, one having significantly more displacement than the other, the one with more displacement will make more power. Turbochargers can substitute for extra displacement on an engine, but it will never make that engine more powerful than a larger displacement engine with the same turbocharger. It really is a simple concept. Whether the SR is more advanced or not (a debateable question), I prefer the potential of the KA to that of the SR.

Oh and what make the ALMIGHTY SILVIA a higher performance sports car than the 240SX (other than the engine)? The front clip? I like my popup headlights very much, thank you.
 
#24 ·
i agree with you that with ??? amount of money anyone can do wonders on any engines but yes i was speaking more of a stock level. and i also agree with you that those .400cc make a difference. of course, duh! youre right, theres is almost no replacement for displacement. so youve proved nothing that i already knew. :( ...

and i dont hate on any engine or car, theres just a different place/purpose for everything. thats all i was saying...
 
#25 ·
david86 said:
i agree with you that with ??? amount of money anyone can do wonders on any engines but yes i was speaking more of a stock level. and i also agree with you that those .400cc make a difference. of course, duh! youre right, theres is almost no replacement for displacement. so youve proved nothing that i already knew. :( ...

and i dont hate on any engine or car, theres just a different place/purpose for everything. thats all i was saying...
Click to expand...
Oh really? What praytell, is the place/purpose of the KA24DE? Because the first car it was used in was a 240sx. Maybe Nissan didn't want to go to the trouble and expense of adding the turbo components to the KA, or maybe they just didn't want the US to receive another turbo'd car from them while they had the TT Z32 available. Whatever the reason, I have never seen anything to prove that the SR is a better platform than the KA. As far as the quality of the ENGINE (not the manifolds, ignition system, fuel system or other components), the KA is superior to the KA. The differences that show between the two engines were added later. The SR was given a Direct Ignition system, an intercooled turbo setup, and the injectors and ECU tuning to support the extra power provided by the turbo. The KA was not. How does that make the SR a better ENGINE? It makes a slightly more powerful engine setup, but stock for stock, the N/A SR is less powerful than the N/A KA.

It seems to me that you are hung up on the "truck motor" misinformation, which has led you to believe that the SR is superior. Even if the KA24DE were a truck motor, how does that make it any worse than the SR?

EDIT*** There is no almost in answer to larger displacement. A larger displacement engine will, by definition, displace more air than a smaller displacement engine. Therefore, if the two engines (one larger, one smaller) were to run under the same conditions, with the same induction method and components, the larger would make more power. End of Story. NO replacement (I don't like it much either, but that's just the way it is). Forced Induction is just a bandaid for lack of displacement.
 
#26 ·
ok, I'm starting to get pissed off about this "truck motor" thing. Who has solid info about this? And if u do have solid info, where the fuck did u get it from b/c I sure as hell can't find it! I didn't see any specific info on wikipedia that said if the KA was first introduced in a car or truck. It just says that the KA is in both. And on wikipedia, it lists more applications for trucks than cars, meaning that the KA has been in more trucks than cars, which is why people call the KA a truck motor.

I'm starting not to give a shit waht people call it b/c it HAS BEEN in coupes/sedans, so what's the problem? IF it's been in cars too then why call it a truck motor? idk
 
#27 ·
shayrgob said:
ok, I'm starting to get pissed off about this "truck motor" thing. Who has solid info about this? And if u do have solid info, where the fuck did u get it from b/c I sure as hell can't find it! I didn't see any specific info on wikipedia that said if the KA was first introduced in a car or truck. It just says that the KA is in both. And on wikipedia, it lists more applications for trucks than cars, meaning that the KA has been in more trucks than cars, which is why people call the KA a truck motor.

I'm starting not to give a shit waht people call it b/c it HAS BEEN in coupes/sedans, so what's the problem? IF it's been in cars too then why call it a truck motor? idk
Click to expand...
The only info I can find says that the first vehicle the KA24DE was used in was the 240sx. The KA24E went into the Hardbody truck and the 240sx in 1989. Arguably, the Hardbody with the KA24E went on the market a few months sooner than the 240 did, but it debued the for the same year model in both vehicles. The DE wasn't used in a truck until 1997, I think it was the Frontier.
 
#28 ·
1992droptop said:
Oh really? What praytell, is the place/purpose... the KA is superior to the KA. It makes a slightly more powerful engine setup, but stock for stock, the N/A SR is less powerful than the N/A KA.

It seems to me that you are hung up on the "truck motor" misinformation, which has led you to believe that the SR is superior. Even if the KA24DE were a truck motor, how does that make it any worse than the SR?
Click to expand...
Hmmmm...ok. Well i havent said anything else about the KA24DE and its truckness origin besides my first post because most people know it as "the truck engine" so i dont see as to how im still "hung up on misinformation." Also in an earlier post i also said that both are great strong engines if done correctly. Also, if i wanted to compare an NA SR20DE to a NA KA24DE, i wouldve done so already, but i believe the topic starter didnt even clarify which type of SR engine. So that said, most people would think that were talking about the turbocharged verision of it. Which is superior? Well i guess that depends on the money that goes into it...
 
#29 ·
Check this out, even though its from the Sentra:gaylaugh :

SR20DE car specs (Sentra SE-R)

Model Code: B13
Engine Code: SR20DE
Horse Power: 140 @ 6400rpm
Torque: 132 lb/ft @ 4800rpm
RPM limited at 7500rpm (200SX SE-R is limited to 7100rpm)
Displacement: 1998cc
Compression: 9.5:1
0-60mph: approx. 7.6 to 8.3 seconds (R&T,MT,C&D)
1/4mile: approx. 15.8 seconds (R&T,MT,C&D)
Weight distribution: 62/38
Brakes: 9.8" vented disks front 9.1" solid disks rear
Weight: 2450lb
 
#30 ·
KA20DE
The 2.0 L (1998 cc) KA20DE was a smaller displacement KA engine used in Japan and other world markets.

[edit]
Specifications
Bore × Stroke: 86.0 × 86.0 mm
Displacement: 1998 cc
Max power: 123 hp (92 kW) @ 5600 rpm
Max torque: 128 ft·lbf (174 Nm) @ 3200 rpm
Valve Configuration: DOHC, 16 valves
Compression ratio: 9.5:1
[edit]
Applications
Nissan Hardbody Truck
Nissan Caravan
Isuzu COMO
[edit]
KA24E

KA24E Engine The KA24E was a SOHC 12-valve engine produced from July 1988 through January 1996. It uses SEFI fuel injection, and features forged steel connecting rods, an internally balanced one-piece cast crankshaft, and a cast aluminum intake manifold.

[edit]
Specifications
Bore × Stroke: 89.0 × 96.0 mm
Max power: 140 hp (105 kW) @ 5600 rpm
Max torque: 152 ft·lbf (206 Nm) @ 4400 rpm
Valve Configuration: SOHC, 12 valves
Compression ratio: 8.6:1 (9.1:1 for early 1989 240SX )
[edit]
Applications
1989–1990 Nissan 240SX
1990–1997 Nissan Pickup
1989–1992 Nissan Axxess
1990–1992 Nissan Stanza
[edit]
KA24DE

KA24DE Engine The 2.4 L (2389 cc) KA24DE was used in many Nissan cars and trucks. Most KA24DEs bound for the US were built in Aguascalientes, Mexico, with the exception of the 240SX, which was manufactured in Fukuoka, Japan.

[edit]
Specifications
Bore × Stroke: 89.0 × 96.0 mm
Max power: 155 hp (115 kW) @ 5600 rpm
Max torque: 160 ft·lbf (217 Nm) @ 4400 rpm
Valve Configuration: DOHC, 16 valves
Compression ratio: 9.2:1

[edit]
Applications
Nissan Xterra
Nissan Frontier
Nissan Altima
1991-1998 Nissan 240SX
1997-2000 Nissan R'nessa (4WD model, Japan)
1993-1997 Nissan Bluebird
Isuzu COMO (Japan)

Information from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_KA_engine
 
#31 ·
david86 said:
theres just a different place/purpose for everything.
Click to expand...
I have asked you several questions to which you have not replied. You were comparing the SR20 platform to the KA24 platform. The true platform is in the quality of engine design itself, not in whether the engine was turbocharged. You claimed the superior technology of the SR20 and yet, you don't want to face the simple fact that as far as engine design goes, the KA24 is at least the equal of-if not the superior to-the SR20. turbocharging is an afterthought to the "head flow design and aluminum block"--those are Your words, mind you. The head flow of the KA is better, the iron block is stronger and marginally heavier. As far as the engines themselves go, the SR is not the end-all. It is not appropriate to compare the power of a turbocharged engine to a naturally aspirated engine. The turbocharging has nothing to do with the quality of the engine design as a platform.

Keep in mind that I don't hate the SR. I like it just fine, but I prefer the KA for the reasons I have stated repeatedly in this thread and others. It makes no sense to me to spend thousands of dollars to get an engine that is illegal in this country and end up with maybe fifty more whp than the engine previously in the car. I could spend $800 and have the same/better performance with a setup that has been shown to pass emissions tests. The SR just does not seem financially or legally prudent.
 
#32 ·
david86 said:
KA20DE
The 2.0 L (1998 cc) KA20DE was a smaller displacement KA engine used in Japan and other world markets.

[edit]
Specifications
Bore × Stroke: 86.0 × 86.0 mm
Displacement: 1998 cc
Max power: 123 hp (92 kW) @ 5600 rpm
Max torque: 128 ft·lbf (174 Nm) @ 3200 rpm
Valve Configuration: DOHC, 16 valves
Compression ratio: 9.5:1
[edit]
Applications
Nissan Hardbody Truck
Nissan Caravan
Isuzu COMO
[edit]
KA24E

KA24E Engine The KA24E was a SOHC 12-valve engine produced from July 1988 through January 1996. It uses SEFI fuel injection, and features forged steel connecting rods, an internally balanced one-piece cast crankshaft, and a cast aluminum intake manifold.

[edit]
Specifications
Bore × Stroke: 89.0 × 96.0 mm
Max power: 140 hp (105 kW) @ 5600 rpm
Max torque: 152 ft·lbf (206 Nm) @ 4400 rpm
Valve Configuration: SOHC, 12 valves
Compression ratio: 8.6:1 (9.1:1 for early 1989 240SX )
[edit]
Applications
1989–1990 Nissan 240SX
1990–1997 Nissan Pickup
1989–1992 Nissan Axxess
1990–1992 Nissan Stanza
[edit]
KA24DE

KA24DE Engine The 2.4 L (2389 cc) KA24DE was used in many Nissan cars and trucks. Most KA24DEs bound for the US were built in Aguascalientes, Mexico, with the exception of the 240SX, which was manufactured in Fukuoka, Japan.

[edit]
Specifications
Bore × Stroke: 89.0 × 96.0 mm
Max power: 155 hp (115 kW) @ 5600 rpm
Max torque: 160 ft·lbf (217 Nm) @ 4400 rpm
Valve Configuration: DOHC, 16 valves
Compression ratio: 9.2:1

[edit]
Applications
Nissan Xterra
Nissan Frontier
Nissan Altima
1991-1998 Nissan 240SX
1997-2000 Nissan R'nessa (4WD model, Japan)
1993-1997 Nissan Bluebird
Isuzu COMO (Japan)

Information from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_KA_engine
Click to expand...
And your point is? The KA24DE, hell the KA24E produces more power (torque-wise, same for the hp) than the SR20DE. This thread has nothing to do with the KA20DE, if that's what you're trying to imply here. That is a completely separate engine from the KA24DE. The whole point is that the KA24DE has a higher displacement, and is not inferior to the SR20DE. The KA20DE was never offered in the S13/14/15. Many people forget that the Silvias were NOT all turbocharged. They also were available with the SR20DE. The Silvia was a performance sports car with one cheaper N/A engine and one more expensive Turbocharged version of the same engine. If the same had been done for the KA24 in the 240SX, the turbo model would have almost certainly produced more power than the turbocharged Silvia.
 
#35 ·
Not all KA24DEs were made in Japan. Mexico made them, then the USA for the Altima. All different revisions. The first KA24E was in the Stanza in 2/88, the 240SX's KA24E was in 7/88. So really, its a cheap peice of crap motor from a shitty car that was put in trucks.
 
#36 ·
The KA24DE's that went into the 240SX were made in Japan. I believe it mentions that in the Wikipedia article as well.

I don't know, the JDM engines just seem overpriced. I'm sorry, but an SR20DET is not worth $2500 for the small power gained. I could see the point of forking over thousands for an RB25 (maybe) or an RB26, but an SR? It's a nice engine, but hardly worth the extra money. It no longer sets one apart either. Whatever, to each his own.
 
#39 ·
1992droptop said:
It makes no sense to me to spend thousands of dollars to get an engine that is illegal in this country and end up with maybe fifty more whp than the engine previously in the car. I could spend $800 and have the same/better performance with a setup that has been shown to pass emissions tests. The SR just does not seem financially or legally prudent.
Click to expand...
amen to that
 
#40 ·
i personally don't car about the whole displacement deal, i just think the ka is a beast and is a stout engine. gotta love the v8 type torque and the nice little purry exhaust note the ka produces, and the little fucker can take a beating..
 
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