question is so over played, search, but i would go with cheaper and more convienient

 

I guess I will sort of say the obvious, it depends on how JDM you want to be. You can boost the KA24DE just as well as the SR20DET. With just a little bit of building in the engine both can put down massive hp. Go with what you want, for me personally I plan on building my KA24DE once I get it and doing a modest boost to have fun drifting and driving, but be able to run it in a straight line too.

 

get a compression test first unless you plan on rebuilding that KA. Then you can decide, but if the motor's junk it's probably cheaper to go sr20det

 

For 7 g's, 300 whp is a good deal if it includes a transmission, a performance clutch and labor to install everything. 7g's for just a motor isnt worth it to me.

 

heh, ok first off your stock intercooler is NOT going to cool your air anywhere near efficiently, or even be able to hold up around 300 wheel horsepower if you get an sr20, with a KA-T your also going to need an intercooler if your trying to reach 300 wheel horsepower...something to think about....with a KA-T your going to have to switch out ALL of your internals cams, springs, spring retainers, pistons and rings, rods..in short everything ...to reach 300 wheel horsepower....if your sr20 is in good condition, STOCK internals can hold somewhere around 400 crank horse, if im wrong correct me, reliably. for what your looking for id honestly say buy the sr20, the KA engine was not made for this...it requires a custom manifold that again is another cost to weigh in. all in all you could spend 5 g's to be around where you want to be reliably including sr20 and mods.....IMO the KA would be to susceptable to break-down since the motor is now built for boost....another thing this is just my 2 cents if you think im a fool...do what you want

 

I guess I will sort of say the obvious, it depends on how JDM you want to be. You can boost the KA24DE just as well as the SR20DET. With just a little bit of building in the engine both can put down massive hp. Go with what you want, for me personally I plan on building my KA24DE once I get it and doing a modest boost to have fun drifting and driving, but be able to run it in a straight line too.

another thing.....its not in how JDM you want to be, one motor was built for one thing the other motor was built for another thing...performance has NOTHING to do with JDM......yes both engines can put down HP, difference is that one can do it more effeciently and cost effectively (the sr20) and one will make you pay out the ass(the KA) you cannot just "boost" the KA, like i said it will require MORE modification to do this than the sr20 would

 

all in all you could spend 5 g's to be around where you want to be reliably including sr20 and mods

Please explain how. i think at least 6 grand on top of the motor. Turbo upgrade, intercooler upgrade, clutch upgrade(probably flywheel too), fuel system upgrade, ignition upgrade, head gasket upgrade, BOV upgrade, im not even done yet. You'll need LSD if you dont have it, probably an upgraded driveshaft etc. This is the way i look at it. For a solid 300whp you'll need all this stuff and push like 18psi. Plus the motor and labor around 3000, your looking at 9000. That's why i said that the 300whp motor for 7000 was a good deal if includes labor. It should also be guaranteed to push within 1% of said horsepower and on pump gas.

 

if you take the MR2 turbo and non turbo the engine for both of them are different. It's different because one was made specifically for a turbo.

The SR is speficically made for turbo and i'm pretty sure can take a good beating. THe KA wasn't built for turbo, there i think you should stick to SR.

I'm pretty sure if you build the KA you wouldn't have a problem, but let's take a lot of hondas for example. You hear a lot of hondaz messing up their engine. It's because they aren't built for the turbo.

 

if you take the MR2 turbo and non turbo the engine for both of them are different. It's different because one was made specifically for a turbo.

The SR is speficically made for turbo and i'm pretty sure can take a good beating. THe KA wasn't built for turbo, there i think you should stick to SR.

I'm pretty sure if you build the KA you wouldn't have a problem, but let's take a lot of hondas for example. You hear a lot of hondaz messing up their engine. It's because they aren't built for the turbo.

clueless newb
there are LOTS of perfectly great running KA-ts out there. feels VERY different from SR too. depend what you want and such. ka-t is great. sr is great ca is great rb is great

but all great for various reasons all have plus and minus

 

it's not about being clueless... and jus cause i only have like 12 post on this damn forum doesn't make me a newb to cars.. Pink dousan is being retarded...

i think you're missing my point Dousan. Like i said i'm pretty sure there's probably KA that are doin fine. What i was trying to express is: If you have one that's made specifically for turbo why not go there.

 

haha
pink dousan is always retarted dont worry, its a wellknown fact

maybe because some people want a ka-t for other reasons: torque, high power, displacement

HMMMMMM

 

Turbo upgrade, intercooler upgrade, clutch upgrade(probably flywheel too), fuel system upgrade, ignition upgrade, head gasket upgrade, BOV upgrade, im not even done yet. You'll need LSD if you dont have it, probably an upgraded driveshaft etc.

BOV's are not necessities and unless they're swapping in an RB engine a new driveshaft will not be needed. An LSD is not required to make 300+hp....It's just needed if they want all the power put to both wheels as opposed to just one wheel. Pretty much everything else is true in this statement but it's a rough overview of what will be essential. One thing you could probably skip is the lightened flywheel.

 

with a KA-T your going to have to switch out ALL of your internals cams, springs, spring retainers, pistons and rings, rods..in short everything ...to reach 300 wheel horsepower

You are wrong. Cams don't need to be changed. Springs and spring retainers? Where did you get that? The KA has a much better valvetrain than the SR. Pistons, rods, rings? True, the pistons are the weak point of the KA, but all of these have been proven reliable above 300rwhp.

Stock engine can make 300hp just as easily as an SR. My suggestion if you actually want to decide...go ride in some cars, SRs, KAs, etc...with different power levels. Figure out what you like...because the cost is the same.

 

BOV's are not necessities and unless they're swapping in an RB engine a new driveshaft will not be needed. An LSD is not required to make 300+hp....It's just needed if they want all the power put to both wheels as opposed to just one wheel. Pretty much everything else is true in this statement but it's a rough overview of what will be essential. One thing you could probably skip is the lightened flywheel.

Ok technically you're right. Im sure you could skip upgrading your head gasket too and get away with it for a while. But when you do something, do it right to make it work right the first time. All these cost(IMO) are part of having the 300 whp. And as i understand the stock sr20 BOV will not work right when pushing 18psi..someone correct me with some numbers if you have em. Phast. If you have some extra time, id like you to research all the parts you think are necessary for the power and list them all here with prices. i've already done this once, id like for someone else to do it now. Thanks

 

And as i understand the stock sr20 BOV will not work right when pushing 18psi..someone correct me with some numbers if you have em. Phast. If you have some extra time, id like you to research all the parts you think are necessary for the power and list them all here with prices. i've already done this once, id like for someone else to do it now. Thanks

Stock SR20DET engines do not push 18 pounds of boost. The turbo is ineffecient after 14 pounds. Also stock SR20DET engines do not have a BOV.

As for the necessary parts for a car to run 300hp I can compile the list as it's a list I've already run through in my head many times.

I'll try to compile this list later today...I'm at work right now so it's hard to play on the internet.

 

Stock SR20DET engines do not push 18 pounds of boost. The turbo is ineffecient after 14 pounds. Also stock SR20DET engines do not have a BOV.

As for the necessary parts for a car to run 300hp I can compile the list as it's a list I've already run through in my head many times.

I'll try to compile this list later today...I'm at work right now so it's hard to play on the internet.

We're not talking about a stock turbo. I think turbo upgrade was mentioned. I didnt know sr20det didnt have a BOV. Here is my list.

All prices are from HT performance and enjuku racing.

Stage 1 turbo upgrade $2350 Includes injectors and ECU and z32 MAF
FMIC $800
Apexi N1 Dual Exhaust $529
Walbro Fuel Pump $120
Performance Clutch $330
Cheapo Boost controller$95
3inch test pipe $99
HKS SS BOV $200
3inch Downpipe $160
Koyo Radiatorw/fan $479
Greddy head gasket $220
LSD $800
Aluminum DriveShaft $450
Flywheel $450

The total of MY list is a drop over 7G's. Remember some people cant do their own labor, and these arent even the highest quality parts. This is my vision of 300whp. Lets say someone has to pay for labor. All this shit will cost them an extra 2g's? 3g's? 4g's? depending on the shop. I think i forgot about a Fuel pressure regulator. Plus you're gonna have some lines and bullshit parts missing or realize you have to change becuse you're there already. Cost goes up. If there is another way to push 300whp out of an sr20det using 2 grand(3 grand for the motor and labor and 2 grand left over from the 5 grand previously stated), you're obviously taking shortcuts and taking a shit on yourself.

The cost of an engine swap, anywhere from 1500-5000 depending on hookups and labor prices. Suspension and brakes....god know how much you spend and i guess that's not even a part of this cause we're talkin about power.

 

it's not about being clueless... and jus cause i only have like 12 post on this damn forum doesn't make me a newb to cars.. Pink dousan is being retarded...
QUOTE]
No no no...he wasn't looking at your post count, he was looking at your post.

Sure you have one example...but did you know they made a sr20de? and a ca18de?

Either way this question is so overplayed...do a search. both engines will give good results. one w/ low end torque and one w/ high end horsies.

 

Stock SR20DET engines do not push 18 pounds of boost. The turbo is ineffecient after 14 pounds. Also stock SR20DET engines do not have a BOV.

As for the necessary parts for a car to run 300hp I can compile the list as it's a list I've already run through in my head many times.

I'll try to compile this list later today...I'm at work right now so it's hard to play on the internet.

14 lbs, huh? i would say it's a little higher than that. i think it's more like 16-17 lbs
cost is going to be near equal for any direction you take. (rb25 can do 300 whp on stock turbo)
i would worry about a high mile KA pushing 300 whp even though there are a TON of people doing it without problems.
it all comes down to what you like. as i see it:
CA:
+ great valvetrain. rev to the moon stock. factory turbo. could handle 300 whp stock.
- 1.8 means you lack tourque down low and it will take more boost or a larger turbo to get you there.higher cylinder pressures (lower reliability) and more lag. parts are slightly harder to get than SR or ka

RB20:
+ smooth inline six. power akin to an sr.
- harder to find parts for. why not get the sr?

RB25
+ 2.5 liters of skyline power. smooth as hell. strong motor. could handle 450+ whp stock. tourque! strong valvetrain
- weight balance of car. (minor issue) higher entry cost. parts availability. (though it is improving everyday)

SR:
+ square motor. smooth as can be to redline for a four. okay up to 400whp stock. easy install. better parts availability than a civic.
- still only a 2 liter. used motrs may need rebuilds anyway. valvetrain isn't #1. (though this is never really a concern for SR owners. install a RAS and hg and you're good to go for 400 whp)

KA:
+ 2.4 liter tourque. good spool up with smaller turbos. fat tourque curve. strong valvetrain. KAs are cheap, plentiful, and available in the US. (hey just find a guy with an SR and you've probably found yourself a KA) King of domesticaly available parts- engine and otherwise.
- Head does not flow. intake manifold sucks. Rebuild suggested. (since it was not a factory turbo engine pistons, rods, etc are not quite up to par) Does not rev smoohtly.
+/- long stroke- causes the engine to rev like poo. causes turbos to spool faster. we all know the KA is not a truck motor and i'm not trying to hate, but i drive my girl's 91 de at least once a week and it defenitley has that "truck 4" quality to it. some may like this.


I'm obviously a little biased, but you get the idea.
i suggest RB25. put that thing in with McKinney kit, boost controller, turbo-back exhaust, and fmic. done. a little more money than your average turbo KA or SR swap, but enroute to 300 whp costs will even out and the RB25 has, inarguably, the best power band.
i am an SR owner and am considering selling off my SR and related parts to get an rb25 swap underway. there's a shop local to me called Carluch Motorsports that can do it for a reasonable price. they did my SR swap and did top notch work.

good luck deciding. read all the boards for at least 2-3 months before jumping into this.

 

The KA-T is so misunderstood. What people dont realise is that 10 or so lbs of boost is really NOT THAT MUCH for the stock KA (and I'm talking about stock internals). If you spend some money on engine management, and tune it right, the KA will put 270 or so to the wheels all day long with no problems. On top of that it's a USDM engine so you dont have to worry about getting caught with it (although the turbo will still be illegal :nono), parts are cheap and EVERYWHERE, and the sky is the limit if you choose to build up the lower end.

To whoever said you have to upgrade the valvetrain and all that other crap, well you're just plain wrong. Do some research before you start typing next time.

I dont understand this "not built for turbo" crap either. The KA might not have the same heads, but it certanly is equally strong. Forged internals and an iron block: are you seriously suggesting that the KA is something that's just going to break down under boost? True the ring lands are known to go first, but that's not going to happen unless you dont pay attention to your air/fuel ratios.

Here, I'll post a list of a good solid KA setup:

Turbo Mani - unfinished log style from JGS tools: $299.95
Turbo - T3/T4 Hybrid, whatever flow sizes you want on ebay: $200-$300
Intercooler - STR 450 Starion type from JGS tools: $399.99
Air/Fuel Control - Apexi S-AFC II from phase 2: $315
Timing Control - MSD BTM for stock ignitions from summitracing.com: $165.95
Fuel Pump - Walbro from pretty much anywhere: $119
Injectors - 370cc SR injectors from sr20peformance: $100
Wastegate - Tial 35mm from anywhere: $219 (cheaper on ebay)
BOV- DSM 1g bov from ebay: $50
Turbo oil - Drain/Feed lines from a hardware store: $20

That right there is pretty much the basic list that will probably get you 10-12 psi. It all adds up to just under $2000, but there are lots of things you could save on. Most of those parts can be found on ebay for much cheaper, or you could get off brand names also if you wanted. Also you could go with the JWT ECU, but I think that actually would add up to a little more-- this setup can grow with you. You'll also need IC piping and an exhaust, but I plan on having a local shop make these for me (mandrel bends) for cheap.

Now, I know there's optional stuff that you'll probably want: clutch, guages, maybe boost controller if you're not satisfied with the spring, etc etc etc... it goes on forever. The point is you can get the basics for pretty damn cheaply - for a price thats even cheaper than the SR.... The choice was obvious to me.

 

Please explain how. i think at least 6 grand on top of the motor. Turbo upgrade, intercooler upgrade, clutch upgrade(probably flywheel too), fuel system upgrade, ignition upgrade, head gasket upgrade, BOV upgrade, im not even done yet. You'll need LSD if you dont have it, probably an upgraded driveshaft etc. This is the way i look at it. For a solid 300whp you'll need all this stuff and push like 18psi. Plus the motor and labor around 3000, your looking at 9000. That's why i said that the 300whp motor for 7000 was a good deal if includes labor. It should also be guaranteed to push within 1% of said horsepower and on pump gas.

give me a 2000 dollar motor and 3000 to play with, on my own labor...and I could give you a 300 whp motor.....of course it costs more to make the car work with the motor you see....and oh yeah....to the KA-T heads i forgot that iron blocks were great...BLEH...performance wise id rather go with weight...you can keep your iron....and I think theres a reason JGTC teams AREN'T pulling nissan truck motors and swapping them into their silvias and 180's oh maybe because weight is almost everything in a 4cyl? take your 270 whp on your KA-t and id take my 270 whp on an SR anyday

I guess it comes down to what your willing/wanting to get into
personally id like over 10-12 psi
Im sorry, but id rather build something that was meant for performance, not something that was made to haul things in low gears


call me an ass...call me a newb..call me whatever you like...when your pistons fly through your hood....and you end up with a rod in your chest.......call me :thumbsup

 

the 'truck' engine was made in mexico


ka24de was made in japan.

and ChildDamien is a JDM Nutswinger
im sure when he had a honda the jdm type r engiens (whatever the code is) was the best because its jdm
but he wont admit it because 'dood honda sucks'
HA

 

the 'truck' engine was made in mexico


ka24de was made in japan.

and ChildDamien is a JDM Nutswinger
im sure when he had a honda the jdm type r engiens (whatever the code is) was the best because its jdm
but he wont admit it because 'dood honda sucks'
HA

hey dood....blow me?
first off never owned a honda
second does this make u a USDM Nutswinger?
and in my opinion(which isnt worth that much) the H22A was probably the best...and thats somewhat USDM

I know the ka24de was made in japan...and it wasnt used in the silvia models or the 180sx..hmmm....
Just because I have an affinity for things japanese doesnt make me a JDM nutswinger....and in my opinion I think the Sr20det is better that the ka no matter where it came from

Im not from the fnf generation...catch a clue man...just because i happen to like something that others dont doesnt make me a bad man...Im aloud to downplay the things I dont like...people need to get off others NUTSACKS about opinions...and no I'm not f'n obsessed with nissan engines and specs(but dont get me wrong, thank you to the informative people who are) I'm NOT an engineer, I just know what I know and I like what I like...

oh yeah under your thought process I can say that you used to own a mustang but you didnt like the weight and your ford kept braking down so you bought a cheap rwd car so you could still go to the rodeo and not be totally laughed at.....get a life kid

 

nah man you need to get a ride in a KA-t and see hwo it feels. drive it if you can
have you EVER tried one? do you know what the torque is like? do you know how it feels?

nah never owned a stang but my first car was a 86 tempo w/ 220k some miles before it went bye bye.

you know what you like but you never tried anything else. that's pretty closed minded AND moronic

nah im no usdm nutswinger. im getting my sr shortly as well. but i also am not such an idiot to ASSUME things as you do. ive tried both..sr (s13 and s14) and kats
for what i do and what i like, SR is more suitable for its response and power (drift) and cost wise.

if i was a drag racer or soemthing KAT without a doubt, but i have kats friends who run drift and open track too and do excellent.

go educate yourself.

 

1) SRs have a recirculation valve, which does the same thing as a blow off valve (and is often replaced by an aftermarket BOV with the blow-off recirculated or not). In other words, SRs have BOVs.

2) To the person who said that the KA head doesn't flow well...you need to amend your statement about the SR to add that it doesn't flow well...because THE KA HEAD IS BETTER THAN THE SR HEAD!

3) The "this engine wasn't designed for this" arguement is not valid so quit using it. The SR wasn't designed to make 300hp, but you don't seem to have a problem with that. Just because someone's intentions weren't to build a beastly turbo motor doesn't mean it can't be great at it. What do good turbo motors have? Under piston oil squirters (KA has them), full main girdle (KA has), forged crank and rods (KA has), direct valvetrain (KA has, SR don't). Want to complain about the stroke...so what. It has a better rod ratio than any Honda could ever dream of. Besides, a long stroke is good for helping a turbo spool-up quick.

Dennis

 

2) To the person who said that the KA head doesn't flow well...you need to amend your statement about the SR to add that it doesn't flow well...because THE KA HEAD IS BETTER THAN THE SR HEAD!

3) The "this engine wasn't designed for this" arguement is not valid so quit using it. The SR wasn't designed to make 300hp, but you don't seem to have a problem with that. Just because someone's intentions weren't to build a beastly turbo motor doesn't mean it can't be great at it. What do good turbo motors have? Under piston oil squirters (KA has them), full main girdle (KA has), forged crank and rods (KA has), direct valvetrain (KA has, SR don't). Want to complain about the stroke...so what. It has a better rod ratio than any Honda could ever dream of. Besides, a long stroke is good for helping a turbo spool-up quick.

Dennis

It is for these reasons that I am going to turbo my KA once I get one (please let it be soon, I need to work more OT for the final cash I need)