[NightXCZ77]

Unstable - once again, look at any website and find the information you need. You will see that RB20's do not have a redline at or near 8,000 stock. Also, you told me on the phone that they didn't even make RB20's past R32 - hate to tell you, but they still made them in the R34 models. Do some research before trying to answer my questions.

Secondly, on the phone all they did was act like I was a dumb ass although I was supplying valid data . They treated me with the uttermost disrespect because I was calling them on the misleading information they had on their website. Good customer service? Not when you can't admit you're wrong on anything.


Unstable - You don't like us, don't buy anything from us, but don't call us at the shop and waste our time, please.

Never planned on wasting your time, won't call again. All I needed to do was make my point and I did so. I will continue these threads to make others aware on other websites. And for sure, I will not buy anthing from you.


Unstable - Once again, you don't like it, nobody makes you pay it. I wish we got our motors that cheap and have them still come complete. I think our prices are more than reasonable, as do our customers. Considering we do an RB20 install about as cheap as anyone else does an SR install, I think we have been more than reasonable.

Me - I know buying power and I know how much I can get clips for from the right people. If I can get clips cheaper than you, then I am astonished....and all my clips are complete unless I ask otherwise. Cheap prices for the RB install. I charge $1000 + clip cost.....that's it. If buyer wants anything else such as new clutch or rear differential assembly, costs em a bit extra, but my prices are far lower than yours....


Unstable - All I can say is, we have had our RB20DET powered cars up to 8K. You have an RB25DET, correct? Those are different.


Me - You're right RB25DET's are different. They have a higher displacement and larger pistons. As far as the people I have talked to in Japan and the research I have done on various websites, the RB20DET does not redline at or near 8, it is closer to 7.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: Also, did you guys have to make the new intake for the RB20 that you have pictures of?

A: It was necessary to have a clean install, and simplifies the plumbing when a front-mount intercooler is used. It also makes plug access easier. Before, you were 1.5-2 hours from ever seeing a spark plug, now, 5 minutes.


Unstable - We know it is possible to install an RB without a custom intake. We don't make our customers buy them. We prefer to use them, because there is much smoother flow into the manifold, less intercooler piping, clears up room above the motor, etc. It does take more time to pull your spark plugs without it, and that is a fact. FMIC kits for 20 and 25 engines? On what cars? An FMIC kit for an RB25 motor in a Skyline won't bolt right into a 240SX, especially after we change the placement of the motor with our custom mounts.

Me - A FMIC kit for a RB motor fits just fine in the 240SX it is like any other FMIC made for the SR20, there is cutting involved in order to get the piping to come through on the battery side. When the customer asked "did you have to" and you replied "it was necessary" that is misleadiing. Acting like it was vital in order to complete the swap. It was necessary means it had to be done.....maybe use some better wording.

quote:
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Q: I just have a question about the manifold you have fitted up to your 240sx w/ the rb20. Is this an aftermarket companies manifold, or is it a custom fabricated manifold?

A: That is a custom fabricated piece we built.

One true thing, but, it's half stock intake manifold and the rest a muffler like pipe attached to the top of it.

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Unstable - Woohoo! At least we got one thing right. The ones on the website now are the first manifold we built. We now have much nicer manifolds, built from CNC'd pieces. Check the website later for pics from our most recent install.


Me - I'd like to see a picture of this manifold. Please get it up on the site ASAP and send me a link, or send me a picture by email, or post it on this forum as well as the cost.

quote:
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Q: Did you have to upgrade the cooling? Would stock radiators and intercoolers be efficient enough to handle the rb engine's cooling needs?

A: Stock R32 radiator was plenty sufficient. We used a front mount intercooler.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unstable - All I can tell you is that you are wrong. Every RB motor we have gotten has come with a radiator that was near the same size as the stock 240 radiator, only thicker. If you'd like, you can come over to the shop and see for yourself an RB radiator vs a KA one.

Me - I have RB radiators sitting in my garage....I know the dimensions of them. True, they are thicker, but they are also taller.

quote:
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Unstable - Okay, maybe we weren't explicit when we said "upgraded turbo bigger injectors". We meant an increase in boost with that upgraded turbo, over what the stock turbo could push, as well as an increase in power over what the stock injectors could handle. That is what we meant, I'll update it on the site ASAP for clarity. Do you have any proof that an RB20DET won't run 12's without slicks or 20psi of boost?

Me - No, I said it could if it were pushed to that extent. It could probably do it without slicks if it was pushed and tuned well enough, my saying slicks was being facetious.

quote:
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Unstable - Big companies...all 4 of us, 1 being part time and 1 being a secretary? Thank you for the revelation, companies are out there to make money. We also charge less for our hourly custom work shop rate than anyone else I have ever seen. Plus, we spend tons of time on the phone with everyone trying to help them out. Even when you called, how much time did we spend on the phone with you before you hung up?

If anyone else wants help, feel free to email us. I'll try and check back with this thread, but I only came to it because someone sent me the link.

Thanks,

Me - Companies are always there to make money....some more to help people than make money, some more to make money than care. How much do you charge for hourly work? Custom shop work? You spent about 10 minutes on the phone with me before saying after demeaning my information time and time again that you didn't see where I was going with this and that I didn't have to buy anything from you and that you didn't need me telling you what you didn't put up correctly. Then you restated everything on the site was correct as published and hung up on me. As far as customer service goes, I believe everyone has it. I supply over the phone help, picture help, and email help for anyone doing a RB swap that was purchased from me. I also include an installation guide and parts interchange page with the swaps.

Night

 

[d240t2]

Unstable - once again, look at any website and find the information you need. You will see that RB20's do not have a redline at or near 8,000 stock.

Well, your information is different than ours. All I can tell you is that the RB motors we have done had an 8000 rpm rev limiter. Perhaps ALL the motorsets we received had upgraded ECU's. Perhaps the information you received from some unnamed source is incorrect. Before we did our first RB swap, we did a lot of research on the internet. When we got the first clip in, a lot of that information from the internet proved to be false.

Secondly, on the phone all they did was act like I was a dumb ass although I was supplying valid data . They treated me with the uttermost disrespect because I was calling them on the misleading information they had on their website. Good customer service? Not when you can't admit you're wrong on anything.

You didn't call as a customer. You called to tell us that we were wrong and you were right. You told us that everything we had seen with our own eyes was false. You didn't call and ask us why there were discrepancies between our data. You called because you are right and we are wrong in your eyes. And on top of that, you wouldn't even tell us your name. We have reputations within the 240SX community. Jason and I have been in the 240SX community for many years. We both were on the old amarok.org lists at least 4 years ago. We have been working on 240SX's since before NSport made a turbo kit, or before HeavyThrottle existed, or before Injen even made an intake for the 240SX. You won't even tell anybody your name. People have seen our RB swap in person, all over the east coast. Who are you?

Me - I know buying power and I know how much I can get clips for from the right people. If I can get clips cheaper than you, then I am astonished....and all my clips are complete unless I ask otherwise. Cheap prices for the RB install. I charge $1000 + clip cost.....that's it.

Tell us where to find clips for $2000 less that are complete, and we'll drop the prices on our installs $2000 for as long as we can get that price. We'd love to see everybody in an RB, that is why we originally put an RB in a car when everybody else said it couldn't be done. If you can survive charging less, go ahead. Nobody said you shouldn't. If we charge too much, supply and demand says that people will quit coming to us and we'll go out of business. Let the market take care of it if we are so horrible.

Me - You're right RB25DET's are different. They have a higher displacement and larger pistons. As far as the people I have talked to in Japan and the research I have done on various websites, the RB20DET does not redline at or near 8, it is closer to 7.

Well, like I said, our research on the internet said the same thing. Our experience proved otherwise.

Me - A FMIC kit for a RB motor fits just fine in the 240SX it is like any other FMIC made for the SR20, there is cutting involved in order to get the piping to come through on the battery side. When the customer asked "did you have to" and you replied "it was necessary" that is misleadiing. Acting like it was vital in order to complete the swap. It was necessary means it had to be done.....maybe use some better wording.

Okay. That is news to me. We'll suggest to future customers that perhaps skyline intercooler kits can fit, but of course, we don't have corroborating evidence to prove it. What that means is, if a customer would like to get a skyline intercooler kit and it doesn't fit, then they'll have to spend the extra money to pay for our labor fixing it. We are trying to save our customers money, as our intercooler kits with custom piping are cheaper than the other options.

Nobody plunks down the money for a motor swap without talking to us first in person, so I am not worried that what we have said is unclear. I'll update the wording within the hour, regardless.

Me - I'd like to see a picture of this manifold. Please get it up on the site ASAP and send me a link, or send me a picture by email, or post it on this forum as well as the cost.

I'll post pics of our latest RB install on the projects page tonight. It'll include a picture which shows how low the motor sits, because of the huge amount of clearance with the strut tower bar.

Me - I have RB radiators sitting in my garage....I know the dimensions of them. True, they are thicker, but they are also taller.

They are slightly taller, but not so tall as to require hood modifications as you had previously suggested. It is possible that all the cars we have done RB swaps on were badly wrecked and the lower radiator support sat lower than stock, giving us extra clearance...or maybe there are some other possibilities for our discrepancy. The only additional thing I can say is that we didn't modify the hood to fit the radiator on any RB swaps to date.

UH - Do you have any proof that an RB20DET won't run 12's without slicks or 20psi of boost?

Me - No, I said it could if it were pushed to that extent. It could probably do it without slicks if it was pushed and tuned well enough, my saying slicks was being facetious.

Oh, so we got 2 things right? Thank you.

Me - Companies are always there to make money....some more to help people than make money, some more to make money than care. How much do you charge for hourly work? Custom shop work? You spent about 10 minutes on the phone with me before saying after demeaning my information time and time again that you didn't see where I was going with this and that I didn't have to buy anything from you and that you didn't need me telling you what you didn't put up correctly. Then you restated everything on the site was correct as published and hung up on me. As far as customer service goes, I believe everyone has it. I supply over the phone help, picture help, and email help for anyone doing a RB swap that was purchased from me. I also include an installation guide and parts interchange page with the swaps.

$40 is our hourly rate. Ask any of our customers...our clock moves slow sometimes (as in, I think we undercharge our actual labor hours as well). Of course we were demeaning to your information, we have experience to back ours up and you haven't shown us you have anything more than internet research, which we know to be unreliable from our own experience.

You certainly include a lot of stuff, except your name. What is the business name? If you can get RB25's for $1800 and install them for an additional $1000, then I'll send a car to you for a swap. (These are the prices you have claimed.)

If you have any further responses, I'll be happy to deal with them here. For now, I am going to add Thai's RB20 swap to the website, as well as update our FAQ's.

Thanks,

Dennis Kalman

 

[d240t2]

I updated the website FAQ's, and added Thai's RB20 swap to the projects page. Check it out, I think people will be pleasantly surprised with how low it sits in the engine bay. There is about 6 inches of room between the top of the motor and the Pilot strut tower bar. Also, the intake manifold is quite a bit nicer than the old one.

Also, I checked back into that FAQ. The $8000 price was not the most basic install. If you notice on the Swap Services page, the RB25DET clip is $4000+shipping, and install is $2200, not including the intake manifold or mounts. The intake manifold is $400, and the mounts are something on the order of $300, but we haven't finalized pricing. The most basic install, including mounts, not including the intake then is right about $6500. That $8k install included the intake, and a front mount intercooler. All these swaps include a custom built downpipe, gauge pod, A/F guage, boost gauge, intake pipe, cone MAF, MAF adapter, etc. I don't think you have been comparing apples to apples when you have compared your prices to ours.

So you say you get your RB25DET clips for $1800 shipped? What is your source. I can't even get SR20DET clips that cheap. Also, you get the clips for $1800 shipped, but on your site you sell them for $3250+shipping? And you dare call us overpriced? I guess if we made $1450 profit/clip, plus double charged shipping, we'd be able to do motorswaps for $1000 as well.

One more thing...

"RB20 series engines weren't even made in the R33 models."
here's proof they were:http://www.skylinesdownunder.com/te...s_overview.html

Did you even look at that link? It says in R32's, you had a choice of many motors, including the RB20DET. In R33's, your choices are RB20DE, RB25DE, RB25DET, RB25DE (4WD), and RB26DETT (4WD). There is no RB20DET listed. Under R34's, once again, RB20DE, RB25DE, RB25DET, and RB26DETT, but no RB20DET. Your own sources contradict the misinformation you are trying to spread. We stand by our words, as backed up by your sources, that the RB20DET's were unavailable after the R32. They were however, also available in the R31's.

Dennis Kalman
unStable Hybrids

 

[DrDubbleB]

Just so you know, I've backed you guys 100% in this thread. My knowledge of the RB isn't enough for me to have put up a decent fight for you though, but no one else was stepping up. That being said, I believe that Night is correct on the redline of the RB20. Everything I have found on it indicates a 7000rpm redline on the RB20DET. Remember, just because there isn't a hard limiter, doesn't mean that you didn't hit redline. Some engines are different than others, sometimes they shut off half of the injectors at redline, sometimes all injectors, and sometimes none.

Kudo's on Thai's swap, it looks GREAT! I had heard about it, but hadn't seen it until now, excellent work fellas!

 

[NightXCZ77]

All I am going to say is that the RB20 series engine was made up till R34, I did not say it was the RB20DET.......as you saw, the RB20E was made in both R33 and R34 models.....I will look at the pictures tonight of the intake manifold. I do not give out my pricing on clips, nor do I charge $40 an hour, but I will tell you that I can get those clips at a lower cost than $3000 a piece or whatever you claim to pay for them, and they are complete. No, I don't make $1400+ on a clip.....not even near it. I usually lower the price for any customer who contacts me. The recent clip I had I sold for $2500.....complete.....so, I am not looking to steal anyone's cash......as for everything else, it's all heresay and what I posted is what I posted.......I don't back down from my information given. Ladies and Gentlemen, adeu.....for I am on to other forums.

Night

 

[fodive]

bai:welcome

 

[fodive]

As far as the facts go if they're good enough for dubble, they're good enough for me.

Night wins...

what about meeeeee? i want respect and admiration too. i lock/move/delete enough of your posts to earn that!

 

[DriftingRPS13]

Hey wassup nyte....hey how can i get a hold of you cuz i got questions on dropping RB20s on mah 89 240sx fastback.....
and D240t2 Hook me u wid ur site as well......

 

[Guest]

i just wanna jump in, not interject but just throw in a little info

NO GTS EVER HAD A RB20DET IN IT

 

[NightXCZ77]

One more thing...


Did you even look at that link? It says in R32's, you had a choice of many motors, including the RB20DET. In R33's, your choices are RB20DE, RB25DE, RB25DET, RB25DE (4WD), and RB26DETT (4WD). There is no RB20DET listed. Under R34's, once again, RB20DE, RB25DE, RB25DET, and RB26DETT, but no RB20DET. Your own sources contradict the misinformation you are trying to spread. We stand by our words, as backed up by your sources, that the RB20DET's were unavailable after the R32. They were however, also available in the R31's.

Dennis Kalman
unStable Hybrids

As I said before....and you quoted me on it. The RB20 Series, underline that word, SERIES engines were still made until R34 models......so how does the website contradict what I am saying? I think you are just trying to score an easy point thinking that I don't pay attention to details....I never said that the RB20DET was made after R32......

Night

 

[NightXCZ77]

Forgot to mention 1 thing.....munki is right.....talk to him, he lives in Japan if you want to know a bit more about Skylines and the engines they have in them....

Night

 

[NightXCZ77]

Postives and Negatives....

Now, I must say Unstable has a very nice looking RB20DET swap on their website. It shows how pretty it can turn out if done correctly. If any of you would like to see, here is a link....I will also be referring to it later.

http://www.unstable-hybrids.com

Another positive thing I have to say is that the manifold Unstable made for the RB is decent looking. I can tell it will do its job well and for $400, it can't be beat unless of course you have friends in Japan like me......but if I didn't have those friends, I would definately buy their intake manifold.....bravo. I also think they did an excellent Job on their intercooler piping.

While I have named off some positives, now I must name same negatives....now, with stock cars, the bov usually comes after the intercooler, thus being that the turbo spools air and when the throttle body is closed, the pressure builds causing it to release so it doesn't build too much pressure and reverse spool on your turbo....also known as vacuum or negative boost. Unstable placed the bov on the turbo side, near the turbo, so instead of the air being released the furthest distance away from the turbo, it is that much closer and upon high boost levels, it may cause a negative boost response. I have seen kits like this and I have seen kits with the bov on the engine side of the intercooler....personal preference is to go with the bov nearest the intake manifold....

I updated the website FAQ's, and added Thai's RB20 swap to the projects page. Check it out, I think people will be pleasantly surprised with how low it sits in the engine bay. There is about 6 inches of room between the top of the motor and the Pilot strut tower bar. Also, the intake manifold is quite a bit nicer than the old one.

You really didn't want me to do this did you??? To start with, I will post pictures tomorrow to prove my information requarding what I am going to say.....I will put them on my website and include a link in a post......here goes.

I was pleasantly surprised as I said above, but a few things struck me the wrong way. We'll start with how low it sits and it's position. (If you want to reference this right now, you can go to my website, but the pix are small and it may be hard to see.) First off, it does appear low, but that is because the stock top portion of the intake manifold is missing......this manifold raises approximately 3-4" higher than the manifold they made. It raises it to the point where a strut bar will not fit. What also adds to the illusion of their "6" " is that the strut bar raises upward to show more clearance, however, I ddi not see 6" of room....did anyone else? Something else that strikes me wrong is how close the engine is to the radiator....I thought you said your custom mounts moved the engine back towards the firewall...in my pics that I will list tomorrow, you will see how far back my engine sits compared to theirs using the stock R33 mounts.

K, secondly.....that is no R32 stock radiator....in fact, it looks like a 280Z radiator. I will post pictures of 3 different RB clips tomorrow to show what a real RB radiator looks like.....from the R32 models.

So, until tomorrow when I have time to post pictures online.....think over what you are saying and to you who are following the post, think about this, why would some guy from nowhere post bad information about a swap and challenge a large company? Obviously there would be no point in doing that because he wouldn't be able to back himself up with data. It's obviously not for fun that I am doing this, it's cause I like to help people and give the right information.......you'll see the pics tomorrow.

Night

The proof is in the pictures, not the pudding.....

 

[d240t2]

As I said before....and you quoted me on it. The RB20 Series, underline that word, SERIES engines were still made until R34 models......so how does the website contradict what I am saying? I think you are just trying to score an easy point thinking that I don't pay attention to details....I never said that the RB20DET was made after R32......

Well then that was a matter of miscommunication. You assured us that RB20's were in R33's and R34's, and we assumed you meant RB20DET's, since all this discussion is over turbo motors. We have never imported, or even heard of anyone importing, an RB20DE. Who wants to swap in an expensive N/A, smaller displacement motor? We never said RB20's weren't available after R32's, we said RB20DET's weren't available. We apparently were in a violent agreement.

And I don't need to score an easy point by quibbling over details. That is your job. That is what you have done. We stake our reputations of many years in the 240SX community on the information we put out, and we know it to be correct. You are trying to gain a name for yourself by being the guy who showed the world how wrong unStable Hybrids is. So far, you haven't proved that anything we said was incorrect.

Thanks,

Dennis Kalman
unStable Hybrids

 

[d240t2]

Another positive thing I have to say is that the manifold Unstable made for the RB is decent looking. I can tell it will do its job well and for $400, it can't be beat unless of course you have friends in Japan like me......but if I didn't have those friends, I would definately buy their intake manifold.....bravo. I also think they did an excellent Job on their intercooler piping.

Thank you.

While I have named off some positives, now I must name same negatives....now, with stock cars, the bov usually comes after the intercooler, thus being that the turbo spools air and when the throttle body is closed, the pressure builds causing it to release so it doesn't build too much pressure and reverse spool on your turbo....also known as vacuum or negative boost. Unstable placed the bov on the turbo side, near the turbo, so instead of the air being released the furthest distance away from the turbo, it is that much closer and upon high boost levels, it may cause a negative boost response. I have seen kits like this and I have seen kits with the bov on the engine side of the intercooler....personal preference is to go with the bov nearest the intake manifold....

Well, that is a matter of opinion. My opinion, based on my knowledge of fluid mechanics and heat transfer from my Chemical Engineering background (Senior at Georgia Tech), is that it is best before the intercooler, and here is why.

1st, this car has a blow-through MAF. The MAF is after the intercooler and before the throttle plate, measuring only air that goes straight into the engine. By having the BOV far away from the MAF and close to the throttle body, we don't have problems with reversion, where pressure after the MAF causes air to flow backwards through it, causing it to read extra air when the BOV opens.

2nd, since the purpose of the BOV is to blow off pressure near the turbo so that we don't get compressor surge, it makes sense to put it by the turbo. That way you have the shortest path between the BOV and turbo...so even if the entirety of the intercooler piping isn't evacuated immediately, at least the portion right in front of the compressor is, and there won't be compressor surge.

3rd, if the BOV is after the intercooler, then the blown off air has already transferred heat to the intercooler. By blowing off air that is before the intercooler, the intercooler won't gain temperature off of it, which would lower its efficiency in the next gear. Maybe this isn't a huge deal, but it is nice.

So, you have your opinion, we have ours. As you clearly stated, this is an opinion matter, so there is no right answer.

I have stated our reasons for doing it the way we have. I don't understand your explanation of why your way is better. Could you explain further for me? Perhaps I will be enlightened. How does the BOV being further away from the turbo help the compressor not get into the surge region?

I was pleasantly surprised as I said above, but a few things struck me the wrong way. We'll start with how low it sits and it's position. (If you want to reference this right now, you can go to my website, but the pix are small and it may be hard to see.) First off, it does appear low, but that is because the stock top portion of the intake manifold is missing......this manifold raises approximately 3-4" higher than the manifold they made. It raises it to the point where a strut bar will not fit. What also adds to the illusion of their "6" " is that the strut bar raises upward to show more clearance, however, I ddi not see 6" of room....did anyone else?

Okay, so what you are saying is, that with our mounts and intake manifold, there is plenty of clearance with the STB, and the way you did it, you can't fit a STB. And your problem is what again? Nitpicking over my guesstimation of 6"? So maybe it is 3"; the point is, the strut tower bar fits with ease in our install, and it doesn't fit at all with yours. Thanks.

I do not give out my pricing on clips, nor do I charge $40 an hour, but I will tell you that I can get those clips at a lower cost than $3000 a piece or whatever you claim to pay for them, and they are complete. No, I don't make $1400+ on a clip.....not even near it. I usually lower the price for any customer who contacts me. The recent clip I had I sold for $2500.....complete.....so, I am not looking to steal anyone's cash......as for everything else, it's all heresay and what I posted is what I posted.......I don't back down from my information given. Ladies and Gentlemen, adeu.....for I am on to other forums.

You said that we paid $1800 shipped for a clip. That is untrue. You must have said it because you believed it, so I can only assume that you pay that much for them. Your website lists them for $3250. All I did was subtract.

You don't back down from your information...so now you are going to run off to another forum, where I'll have to track you down and correct your misinformation once again.

So, until tomorrow when I have time to post pictures online.....think over what you are saying and to you who are following the post, think about this, why would some guy from nowhere post bad information about a swap and challenge a large company? Obviously there would be no point in doing that because he wouldn't be able to back himself up with data. It's obviously not for fun that I am doing this, it's cause I like to help people and give the right information...

What is this large company thing again? 4 people work at unStable. I go to school full time and spend spare time answering emails, etc. 2 people work on cars full time, also answer emails and answer the phones, and we have one secretary, who deals with emails and phones and orders.

The reason you are trying to challenge us is to make a name for yourself, since you are new to the 240SX community, and we are dinosaurs relatively speaking.

Thanks,

Dennis Kalman

 

[d240t2]

That being said, I believe that Night is correct on the redline of the RB20. Everything I have found on it indicates a 7000rpm redline on the RB20DET.

The FAQ on the website clearly reads as follows:

Q: What is the rev limit on the rb20?

A: Right around 8000.

We never argued what the redline was. We only argued what the rev limiter was. We maintain the fact that, according to the stock RB20DET tach that we put into that 240SX with the RB swap, the engine did not hit a rev limiter until 8000. It pulled hard until 8000. I remember specifically driving it up to 8K at Jason's request. I drive a turbo KA daily, so I shift at 6500 or so when I am really pushing it hard, so it was a treat to let it go for an additional 1500rpm.

Dennis Kalman
unStable Hybrids

 

[robertzas]

How has the blow through mafs worked for you guys? You guys don't have any re-read rich problems due to the blow through mafs?

 

[d240t2]

How has the blow through mafs worked for you guys? You guys don't have any re-read rich problems due to the blow through mafs?

Nope, no problems with blow-through MAF's on our RB20DET car that is running it, nor on the 2 turbo KA's we have done with blow-through setups. I previously had a turbo KA with a draw-through MAF and a vented BOV, so I know the problems with that, and these cars don't have that at all. Blow-through MAFS do have the problem of making intercooler piping tricky. For example, my car has a blow-through Cobra MAF, which has a 3.5" inlet and a 3" outlet. Piping after the intercooler is all 3", whereas before the intercooler it has a 2" transition to 2.5".

Dennis

 

[NightXCZ77]

As for stock MAF - they run off the air sucked in by the turbo. As in my RB25 DET, you have filter attached to MAF, attached to a tube that goes to the intake side of the turbo. The air is compressed and goes through the intercooler up to intake manifold. Using this setup, a BOV after the intercooler that is open air, would probably have more efficiency. As far as what you are saying about temp loss, heat transfer, or whatever you were talking about, I am not understanding that being that the pressure would be released after the compressed air has backed up as far as a foot before the turbo, therfore there would be more hot air near the intake manifold. With the bov nearest the throttle body, the hot air is released, and the cool air still being compressed through the intercooler comes through so you would have colder air.

Anyways, sorry about the pics thing, my A drive ate my scandisk transfer cassete, so I am going to have to take my computer apart to get the pieces out and put them back together before I can upload any new pics. I will notify when new pictures are up.

By big company, I mean BIG name.....as you said, you are known throughout the 240 community....whcih means that because you have a Big name, you probably have a substantial amount of business.....I am not talking Micrsoft here....

Night

 

[fodive]

whats your website night?

 

[Mafioso]

Night's website can be found here..


Night's Website